Brad Wyant (00:59)
Good morning and welcome to the Management Under Construction podcast. I'm Brad Wyant.
Dee Davis (01:04)
And I'm Dee Davis and we're here today with Suzanne Tulien Suzanne has provided me some branding coaching that was very valuable to me. And I wanted to share that with you, our audience. Suzanne, welcome to the cast.
Suzanne Tulien (01:20)
This is going to be a great conversation. I'm really looking forward to it.
Dee Davis (01:23)
we're gonna start off talking about business branding. Suzanne, before you dive into business branding, tell us a little bit about yourself and your background
Suzanne Tulien (01:31)
I'm officially 25 years building brands for businesses. And before that, I was in, marketing So I have a little bit of what I would call the external viewpoint from an outside looking in. And now I'm doing much more of the inside looking out for businesses, looking out into their market spaces and figuring out what their brand value position is.
I started the company in 2004, believe it or not. I wrote a book with my husband's partner, time called Brand DNA, which is this book right up here, this red book behind me. And it kind of set the stage for what we do as an organization to help companies unpack the brand value attributes that they aspire to be so that
We can then infuse that into the hearts and minds of their people and their systems and processes and leadership and culture so that they're literally walking the talk and delivering on their promise every single day in a highly conscious, strategic, and deliberate way. this is something that a lot of companies miss They might say that they've got their logo down, their website down, and everything looks pretty out there, but what about the inside of the organization? Are you in alignment?
with what you want to become known for. So that's what help companies do.
Brad Wyant (02:51)
What a cool career to have gone out on your own and created this business and to help companies do more than just talk the talk instead of doing that, just walk the walk as well. think brand identity, especially in construction is something that construction companies struggle with building since each construction project ends up operating as its own little company in some ways. It's a group of people out on a job site in their own office, far removed from the main office, from the brand concepts that are
developed and implemented at that level. And a lot of people on this cast that listen will have a deep connection with the idea that connection with that main office concept is not always something that trickles down to that group effectively. So I would love to begin by asking you about in instances where there's this big management, aha, we've had this realization about what our brand should be, how we're going to go to market. What are some of the challenges that you've observed that companies had?
in disseminating that information, sharing that vision with the rest of the organization and bringing them on board to it because that's a very difficult challenge as I'm sure you've experienced.
Suzanne Tulien (03:58)
I agree with you in the construction industry or any industry that has a lot of kind of off-site trainings, off-site work being done that's not totally under the same roof, it is very difficult to create that level of consistency, the same level of narrative that's being spoken underneath one roof versus out on the field. And plus,
your industry has a lot of contract workers, right? So they're not necessarily all employees that get the onboarding training and get the basically drink the Kool-Aid in the same way as the company worker come in. You want to definitely get them on board, and that's something that would probably be a huge differentiator for a lot of. construction companies if they decided
they wanted to be more consistent in how they delivered on their grand promise is to take on that level of training, take on that level of communication so that they were committed to ensuring that everybody they hired on these contract workers, there was a process that you would take them through in order for them to understand and get them.
enlisted, equipped, and engaged into the mindset of the brand. that would be huge differentiator if the company really was committed to delivering on their promise in that way. But it is a struggle, it's a yes or no question. Do we want more of this communication? Do we want more of this congruency out on the field that we think that we are aspiring to incorporate?
And if that's the case, then what are we doing tangibly to make sure that happens? What systems and processes are we putting in place to make that happen?
Brad Wyant (05:45)
a lot of work on the implementation side. thank you very much.
Dee Davis (05:48)
I'd like you to differentiate for the audience. What is the difference between branding and marketing?
Suzanne Tulien (05:55)
I think that's one of the best ways to kick off this podcast because that's the confusion. People don't think branding applies to them if they believe they're already marketing in a sufficient way. So defining the difference between it was so key to kind of open the ears of your audience members and let them understand the power of the two pieces working together.
So first I'll start off with marketing. Everybody understands that marketing is the dissemination of information about brands. So you market a brand, So they can't be the same thing. You're marketing a brand. You're out there delivering and disseminating information about the brand. So the brand is just a set of perceptions. And we think about branding, the verb,
If I'm going to brand an organization, I'm going to unpack and identify and define the attributes that make up the specific perceptions that I want to be known for as an organization. So it's literally a process, meaning to what we stand for as an organization. And in my brand DNA methodology, there are six components in that.
So once we get those components done and clarified, then we can go out marketing. Because if we're actually out there marketing something that we have not yet fully identified, defined, and are aligned to, meaning walking the talk, then my question to you is, what the heck are you out there marketing? You know, I don't know what you're marketing.
You're either copying your competitors, which is not good for differentiation, right? Everything becomes a commodity in the mindset of your markets. Or you're chasing the client. think you know what they want and you're marketing information about that versus going inward, getting crystal clear on what actually makes your organization different. Committing to walking that talk and then locking your systems and processes, your leadership, your internal vernacular.
how you speak to your own employees, do you speak to your own markets differently and uniquely and stand in that construct, no pun intended, but stand in that construct that you've designed so that you can behave differently and you're creating tangible customer experiences, tangible employee experiences that truly differentiate yourself from
other organizations and you are definitely more B2B than you are B2C, right? So your markets are other organizations that you're trying to market to. do you understand now the difference between marketing and branding? Branding is the assignment of meaning. And have to tell you that there's good news and bad news about every single organization out there in terms of brand. The good news is every organization has a brand already.
Because all a brand is is that set of perceptions and as soon as you open your doors and you're transacting actually doing business, people are perceiving you. They're perceiving how you operate. They're perceiving your price points. They're perceiving your quality of delivery. The bad news is is you've already got a brand, right? So the good news is you've got a brand. The bad news is you've already got a brand. The question is, are you in control of it? And the
The control piece is getting to the point where you're going to actually count your leadership team and assign meaning to what you want to be done for. And that's the process I take my organizations through.
Brad Wyant (09:41)
it's a really brilliant way of putting it.
Dee Davis (09:43)
it does make sense. having a brand, like you say, can be a good thing. Is it the brand you want or what you're shooting for? Because, let's just face it in the contracting world, sometimes we get a bad reputation. it's very similar to your reputation.
What kind of reputation do you want? That's your brand. I love how you say, and I try to remember these words, what do you want to be known for? For me, that really clicks in my head with how to describe what it is. What do you want to be known for? Do you want to be known for doing a really good quality job? Well, yes.
Of course I do. Do you want to be known for being reliable? Well, yes, I do. And you have to think about things. What do you not want to be? You have to think about it in the opposite way, too. What do you not want to be known for? Well, how can we make sure that we're not doing that and we're not putting that out there? That's a sticky phrase for me. What do you want to be known for?
Suzanne Tulien (10:45)
Yeah.
Yeah, you gotta think about your competitors too. And what are they saying? Right? What are your competitors saying? If they're saying the same thing, you've got to look at how they're operating in their behaviors and are they actually delivering on that promise or are they creating what we call cognitive dissonance in the markets? They say one thing and they're not showing up that way. Well, you would have an advantage, a competitive advantage if you're saying that same thing, but you're actually infusing those attributes into the behaviors and actions
of your employees and actually delivering on that promise.
Brad Wyant (11:24)
And it's a hard connection to make a lot of us in construction think, well, if I just show up on time and do good work, then people will know that I show up on time and do good work. And in some instances, that's true. Doing what you say you're going to do is a large part of life, but letting yourself be known as somebody who does that requires additional communication, requires thought about how you interact with people around you, not just the behavior.
And that's not a factor of people not being observant. It's a factor of human nature. We read things on brands, on billboards, on signposts, and they scream at us. They click in our heads in certain ways that require us to respond in a certain way. It's not about people not listening to you. It's not about people being easily manipulated. It's just about people being people when it comes to branding. A lot of people get, I think, a little pessimistic about
branding sometimes and reminding them that you're as susceptible to that kind of messaging as anybody else and that you have to accept that that's human nature is important.
Suzanne Tulien (12:31)
Well, I just want to clarify what you're saying. totally get what you're saying. What you're saying when you talk about being advertised to, being marketed to, that's a function of marketing, right? It's not a function of branding. We've got to use this terminology in a way where people begin to separate the two. If you're marketing against something that is not currently being lived by the brand,
then you're creating a lie out there. You're not guaranteeing that my messaging out there is telling you I'm going to pull people in the door, getting butts in seats, so to speak, my product or service, and yet then I'm not delivering on what I'm promising out here. So the brand piece, remember when we're talking about marketing. We're talking about that conscious, strategic, deliberate way
of clarifying, outlining, and clarifying the attributes that make up who we are. Let's say we have a construction company that says we're all about team. Team is one of the biggest value constructs that we have and our style attributes. These are just components within the brand DNA methodology. We can go through those if you think that it's important for our audience to understand the elements of the brand DNA. But style attributes are basically a collection of personality traits
that your organization is committing to show up as. So if we're team minded, then your organization has to constantly bring about team processes, team conversations, team huddles. We communicate in team. We rely on each other. We've got each other's backs. We've got to create that culture of team. And we deliver to the client with a team mindset.
if that's not my expertise, I'm going to have Joe over here give you a call and then he calls you, right? And follows up and explain some things. That's what I mean by really creating those actions of behaviors. Once you define the construct of your set of perceptions that this organization is going to commit to deliver on a daily basis, then your marketing actually lives up to your behaviors.
And when those two pieces work together, you are an exponential force. You can grow exponentially because you're actually delivering on your promise. Does that make sense?
Brad Wyant (14:56)
Absolutely. It's the difference between a company that says we're all about the team, but then the project manager says, look, what that project engineer said doesn't really matter. Listen to what I'm going to say to you now. And then it's like, well, that thing that they said in their branding isn't really true. So there's that cognitive dissonance, and then the brand breaks down. When they go back to bid for that client again, it's like, well, they say team, but really, this is the way that that behavior worked out.
even if that were true, even if the project engineer were wrong, the team oriented thing to say as that project manager would be to say, hey, I hear you, let me go back and talk to the team and let's come back and circle back on a solution there because I think we might have some more discussion to do internally. That would be the team way of representing the brand and the value of reinforcing that brand image in front of that client, even though you're doing the same thing just in different ways.
is that you're unifying your actions as part of a greater construct within the firm, within the organization, the way that people think about you when you're not in the room. And that's why it's so important.
Suzanne Tulien (16:05)
It is, absolutely.
Dee Davis (16:07)
Well, and one of those things builds trust and the other one breaks it down. And we talk about that quite frequently in the cast that trust is. Paramount in any relationship, personal relationships, business relationships. If you can't trust the person on the other side of the table. All is lost. And you can build that trust.
Suzanne Tulien (16:12)
Absolutely.
Dee Davis (16:35)
by doing what you say and approaching it in a way that is consistent with your values and your branding and what you say you're going to do.
Suzanne Tulien (16:46)
One of the three most powerful characteristics of a successful brand happens after we get the clarity from the brand DNA process. We start overlaying it with these three characteristics and one of them is consistency because consistency is king and consistency builds trust. Trust creates history. History forms tradition and tradition builds rituals. And when your brand
becomes ritualistic in terms of organizations turning back to you for business over and over and over again, that becomes the upper echelon of the brand in your industry. But it all starts with consistency. And I always say this when I say that because it doesn't mean that you should be consistently late, consistently unprepared.
That is consistently on brand, on the brand construct that you've created in your brand. That's what I'm talking about.
Dee Davis (17:49)
Yeah, consistently bad is not a good thing, right?
You're right, that is consistent. just not a good kind of consistent. We don't want to do that kind of consistent. OK, so. ⁓
Suzanne Tulien (18:01)
That's
the bad news sometimes when you have a brand, right? When you're not in control of your brand. don't ask consistently unprepared.
Brad Wyant (18:10)
Okay, I'm going to go down a rabbit hole for a minute. think all of us know who have worked in construction, that person who consistently smells like cigarettes and consistently shows up 15 minutes late and whose drawings are consistently out of order. Just totally a mess. But that person may or may not consistently do their work well. the business of construction is
filled with artisans. The people who are some of the greatest artists in our crafts are not consistent in the rest of their lives, but are deeply dedicated to their profession and are so excellent at it that they're chain smoking their way through doing a job that none of us could ever do if we spent 30 years and 12 hours a day trying to be as good as they are because they're naturally gifted people.
Not trying to be consistent in any one thing because you're trying to put on airs because you're trying to pretend that you're something you're not it's about the walking and the talking being in the same place. It's about creating less of that cognitive dissonance creating more harmony in the message and the product.
Suzanne Tulien (19:15)
The cognitive resonance versus dissonance. Yes, and organizations have to understand their own tolerance. You when they create the construct that is helping them formulate these actions and behaviors to behave in certain ways so that they can create distinction and competitive advantage, there is that tolerance. Where are we going to draw the line if our employees are going outside of that?
Brad Wyant (19:18)
There you go.
Suzanne Tulien (19:40)
How are we training them to enlist them, which means get them reasons to buy in to this construct that we're creating for our brand and delivering on our promise. And then you've got to draw the line and say, this person continuously is not following the brands and taking in and becoming part of what makes us truly different and do something about that.
There's always tolerance. When you create clarity around a brand value position, there's always that line that steps outside of that clarity.
Dee Davis (20:17)
So as a business owner, if I want to grow my business to the next level, why is branding important in that effort?
Suzanne Tulien (20:27)
Because branding puts you on a trajectory of consistency. I could just replace the word brand with when you assign meaning to what you want to be known for, the organization who you to be known for and how you deliver. When you take the time to do that in a conscious, strategic and deliberate way, you begin discerning differently about every decision you make in the organization and ensuring that it is on-brand and in alignment
with who you say you want to be known for. So that in and of itself clears the way for a lot of misunderstandings, a lot of cognitive dissonance, and that in the marketplace as well as with your people. And when you go down that highway now that is clear with who you want to become known for, you grow faster.
Dee Davis (21:17)
I guess one of the things that we see I think it's everywhere, but I can speak for the construction industry, is we see things like values or, I don't even know what you would call it, values is the right word. We see words put up on walls, right? And I...
I think they're intended to be like company values or whatever, and they're placed up on walls and they're pointed at periodically, maybe at an annual meeting or something. And other than that, I don't feel like they're given much credence. They don't seem to be woven into the daily of the business. And I think that's kind of what we're dancing around here is that there's just
Coming out and saying, these are the values of our companies. We're going to put them up on the wall and we're going to point to them and we're going to go, that's who we are.
Suzanne Tulien (22:10)
Remember, Dee all that is is marketing. Yeah, right. It's marketing. it. No, you're just disseminating the information. You're just, when you've got your values on the wall and you're just showcasing something, which is to me called lipstick on the pig, if you're actually delivering on the promise. Where I specialize most is getting these attributes to become tangible within
the core construct, the systems and process leadership and culture. And that's the golden nugget. That's the piece that we've got to make. It's like this team thing. Let's say we are all let's say we were all out communications prove it right. They out communications show me the process and processes of your communication lines and show me where it is resonating with it. They know who's involved. Everybody understands that protocol.
If you don't have that designed and infused and woven, like I love your word woven, to systems and processes, then you're not necessarily delivering on your promise. You can't even claim to be.
Dee Davis (23:21)
Yeah, and I think that's what a lot of people see in industry I talk about it the same way when we talk about change implementation in any kind of an organization. Announcing change is not implementing change. Putting words on walls is not branding, right? It's not your core values just because you simply state them. If you don't live them, it doesn't matter.
you are not getting that value out of whatever exercise you took to get to those words. And I think that was one of my kind of ahas when you and I did coaching together was, yes, you have to come up with words, but then you have to figure out ways to weave that into what you're doing.
all day, every day and your decisions And as a business owner, I'm saying to you business owners out there that are listening or if you're working for a business that has those words on the wall, if you're not living that stuff, you're not doing what you say, you are not being consistent. You're not maximizing your potential in the business world. You're, as you said, simply marketing.
and you're trying to convince everybody that you're doing this without actually doing the work. So that's when a company could contact you and say, Suzanne, we need some help because we have these words. Maybe they're the right words, maybe they're the wrong words. Who's to know without doing some more work? How do we...
implement this, how do we weave this into our daily lives and you can help them with that, right?
Suzanne Tulien (25:00)
Absolutely. That's where the fun really starts. When we generally get done with a brand DNA session, whether it's my accelerated version of DNA in a day, which is super fast and it's a group of about 10 people, or the two day version that continues to import afterward, we really work on how important it is to not only really clarify what the idea
defining what these attributes actually need for the organization. But then we go into the space of tangibility, making sure that we can infuse this into our frontline, our midline, and in operations. your whole narrative begins to change when you have this new vocabulary that you've created by assigning a meaning to what you want to be known for. It's really powerful.
Brad Wyant (25:52)
Suzanne, I'd love to throw you a question about branding for an organization if you don't mind, sort of a practical business case adjacent question that we can talk through and we can solicit some of the ideas about how to make decisions as a leader when it comes to these branding concepts you're talking about. There was a company that I worked for that was known for having orange colored pickup trucks. They would pay about $3,500 per truck to
paint the whole truck a very distinctive shade of orange. And in the construction environment, most trucks are white. Everyone that drives a company truck is at a certain status in the organization, either a senior foreman or a superintendent. And seeing the company's trucks around any job site is a reminder, that that business is doing its job here. Usually, it's just a white truck with a logo about that big on the doors. But this one company had orange trucks.
they were already known for doing what they say they would do. And they had a very distinctive brand in the market. But if you were in the room of that company when they were debating whether or not to continue spending that thirty five hundred dollars per truck in a fleet of hundreds and hundreds of trucks to preserve this
unique part of their identity that they've been known for, how would you think out what the cutoff point is in terms of the cost versus the reward of having that orange truck? What kinds of principles would you use to make that kind of decision?
Suzanne Tulien (27:23)
That's a great question. I don't think I've ever had a question like that before, Brad, but I love this. I love this to figure this out. The first thing I would do is really take a look at the equity that what we call the brand equity in this organization and understand the association between your market seeing this truck and what they're associating with that color. let's just say that this color is part of a little palette, right?
And they know that that orange means something in this sector, industry of construction. your market knows this. what does that logo color trigger in the minds of their market? If we can do an assessment and truly understand that it is trigger actions that are in alignment with what we want to be known for,
It's a very powerful thing for them to be doing and create brand awareness, To continue to show up in there with those colored trucks and spend the money on that. Because it's in effect advertising, right? We're advertising something that's continuously triggering a good, positive, aligned version of the set of perceptions we want our markets to know of us.
That's I would assess it. And I would say that if we are not actually living up to what we want that perceived color to mean, then I would say if we don't want to let everybody know that we're out there because it's a negative perception, we've got to take some steps towards either
Ratcheting back up our conscious strategic and deliberate actions and behaviors to ratchet up back our preferred production and how we're operating so that it starts Aligning with what we want that color to mean again a lot of companies start off really great and then it gets so big and they so fast that they lose control of the systems processes and actions that doing it reduces or dilutes
the brand's ultimate goal in how they want to be perceived because they're not considered enough anymore. So there's several things you got to look at before you make that decision.
Brad Wyant (29:41)
Let me see if I can try and summarize. It's almost as if you want to find out from that company's clients when you see the orange truck, does that remind you of us? And when you're reminded of us, do you have positive associations? If those associations are positive enough, then maybe it's worth the $3,500. If it's like, yeah, that's just their thing. Maybe it's a wash. And if it's negative, it's those people. And it's like, well, definitely don't paint them orange.
So to sum it up, as long as you're taking an action to differentiate yourself, if it's memorable, if it's something that people tangibly identify with your company, and if their associations are positive, then it's a worthwhile activity without putting numbers to it since we don't have the data.
Suzanne Tulien (30:25)
Yeah, so the onus is on the organization to ensure that that logo is going to trigger positive connotation of what this organization is all about. So the onus is on them to ensure that. And when you go out and you create the survey, asking those questions, the key is to understand who your brand is by getting clear on what those attributes are. So in your survey, can literally ask them
Are we this, this, and this on a scale of 1 to 10? When you see this color, are we showing up this way? So you're putting attributes out there and then they're going to scale and answer a question on 1 to 10, like maybe it's a 5 or maybe it's 3. don't get that color at all, right? But good questions out there. You get good answers back that are informative, right? And they're based on something versus
How do you feel when you see this color? Does this color represent or how closely does this color represent these four or five attributes that we want to be known for? We want to get that clear on our questions.
Brad Wyant (31:30)
I see that's a very specific question to ask and I understand the value of it now.
Suzanne Tulien (31:35)
Good question. I love that question.
Brad Wyant (31:37)
We love to have fun here.
Suzanne Tulien (31:39)
you
Dee Davis (31:40)
So I feel like there's companies out there that choose to rebrand sometimes. And I know that when they do that, I always sit back and wonder why they've made that choice. Sometimes I feel like it's a good choice. Sometimes I feel like, gosh, you were doing great. Why'd you do that for? When should a company consider rebranding? When is that a good idea?
Suzanne Tulien (32:03)
I have a blog post on this. can send you the link to that to send out to your audience to read a bit more about it. But it's called the fallacy of rebranding. And just like you, you're wondering why a company might rebrand. Before I would even go there with them, I would definitely dig in and say, why are you doing this? What are your legitimate data-driven reasons
why you feel like you have to rebrand. remember that a brand is just a perception, right? And your brand is either conscious or it's unconscious. You've decided to be this way or you haven't. You let your brand just evolve organically and it is what it is. So when you decide to rebrand, a lot of companies think rebranding is we're gonna update our logo or our color palette and our website. And they call it done.
Which is totally a misnomer. It's something that is the biggest facade, magic trick for places out there to do is to come up under a new name and do the same stuff.
Dee Davis (33:11)
there was a very recent example of a disastrous one. It might have been a restaurant that did exactly that. And it was a complete disaster. The backlash from their fans, from their audience, from their customers was massive. they did a 180 on that very quickly. And I thought of you when that was happening.
my first thought was, what are you doing? And why are you doing it? And then my second thought was Suzanne would tell you, no, no, no, I know she would.
Suzanne Tulien (33:47)
Let's say they've got a lot of brand equity doing what they're doing and they're doing it well. If they choose to dive into a brand new market and they're creating some new products that really don't even relate to the other market or it's so disconnected, it's hard to connect to in terms of
How do they relate to one another? Then you should start thinking about either rebranding if you're going to go that direction with entire company or create a whole new brand, a subset of your other brand. But it's very, very difficult skill set that requires a lot of deep dive digging in to figure out if we are a match for a rebrand. Maybe it's a misnomer or a name. When people say that rebranding,
I would say, let's take a look at a brand refresh. If a color palette is 70s looking, and we really want to just generate a little bit more of a modern feel, but we're really the same organization, let's brighten the colors. Let's keep maybe the same color palette, but let's look at brightening the hues, changing out very delicately, maybe turning a
a font into a little bit more modern font, but keeping the integrity of the feel. I actually did that for Heating and Plumbing Engineers. I did that for them. They were a third-year-old company. And we just freshened up the logo because I argued with them. We do not want to create a new logo design. You've got equity. People know who you are. It's all over everywhere, right? Let's just freshen it up.
So that's an alternative they need to think about. Oftentimes they don't, right? Think directly, let's do a brand refresh. It's gonna get us all this new business. That's not the way to think about it
Dee Davis (35:37)
Well, and I think it does go backwards sometimes. At least I feel like that's what happens is if you change your name or you change your logo because you've had it for 30 years and you've built this reputation and it was not a bad one. And you make these big changes, it makes people step back and go, wait a minute, what's different? Why is that different?
Are you different now? Can I still trust you? And I feel like it makes people go backwards. And I often wonder if they just have these new marketing teams that just, they just want to do something different and they don't necessarily take into account that it may not be the best thing for the business. New and different is good in some ways, but it can also
cripple a business if you lose that brand equity. I've seen it happen a few times where maybe they were struggling a little bit and the rebranding was an attempt to save the business a little bit and it just sped its departure from the business world.
Brad Wyant (36:48)
So
that's a term to bring attention to here, the term brand equity. And equity is something that's built over time as anybody who is a partner in a company realizes, it's something that can be lost in a minute, just like trust. If you throw away that brand identity that you've built all that equity in, you better have a good reason for switching. You better have something new that you're bringing along that's gonna replace that, that's gonna have lot of value.
But like you're saying, Dee if it's the last dying grasp of a company to try to stay relevant, to try to send a new message out there that doesn't align with what people weren't listening to anyway, then you're in real trouble.
Suzanne Tulien (37:26)
remember the logo was really designed as a graphic symbol and it is a marketing piece. It's a market piece of collateral. It's not the brand itself, but over time this actual symbol is going to begin to trigger the perception, the emotion, the visceral understanding of what that symbol means to me once I've transacted with this organization.
I always say the logo is just a symbol that is a trigger element that triggers the remembering of an interaction, the remembering of an experience, a brand experience when I last purchased something with them or work with that person or that organization. And it's so important to remember when you're changing the image, you're never changing the internal.
parts of the organization until you go back in and you reassign meaning to the actions and behaviors of that organization and what they want to be known for. That's true rebranding, is going back in and reassigning meaning to what we're going to stand for now versus before.
Dee Davis (38:36)
That's awesome. Thank you so much for that wealth of information about business branding. In the show notes, we're going to put information on how to contact Suzanne, all the different wonderful services that she can offer for your business. Did you have any closing comments, Suzanne?
Suzanne Tulien (38:57)
I have this 45 minute zoom call that complimentary if you're curious, you think might be a good fit for some work like this that you're ready to get everybody on the same page to create some consistencies to get crystal clear. want for let's just talk about it right and see if you're good fit. I've got several different ways we could deliver on this brand DNA product. If it's good fit for your organization.
Dee Davis (39:24)
Well, I can personally attest she's very, very knowledgeable and her methods are extremely helpful. So I highly recommend that if you need work on your branding for your company, contact Suzanne. Thanks so much for joining us.
Suzanne Tulien (39:39)
Thank you so much.
