Brad Wyant (01:08)
Good morning and welcome to Management Under Construction. I'm Brad Wyant.
Dee Davis (01:12)
And I'm Dee Davis. And we're here again today with my friend Suzanne Tulien She is a branding expert. Suzanne joined us on a previous episode to talk about business branding. Today we're going to talk about personal branding. They're quite different and very, very important for all of you professionals out there who are looking to accelerate your career. welcome back, Suzanne. Thanks so much for being here.
Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Suzanne Tulien (01:42)
I've done this kind of work for about 25, 30 years now in different areas of my life. I am an author and speaker, professional trainer, and love just digging into understanding what makes people tick in organizations, by helping them unpack who they are in terms of their attributes, getting more conscious, getting more strategic,
operating in that certain mindset so that they can be known as something unique and special and different than everybody else.
Dee Davis (02:16)
we all want to be unique and we all want to be the same, all at the same time. that's one of the things that makes us humans so interesting. We want to be the same and included. And we all want to have our own unique personality and our own unique way of approaching things. Why is personal branding so important for any individual?
Suzanne Tulien (02:39)
the first thing I would say is that you've got a brand whether you're conscious of it or not, right? Because all a brand is for yourself is a set of perceptions that first of all, you're perceiving about yourself and then externally how others are perceiving you. And when those two elements come together, the more they overlap, the more consistent you are in reality and how you're thinking you are showing up and how others
you are. But if they're separated, then you're thinking you're acting and behaving in one way, and they're showing their perceiving you completely different. So if you've got a lot of misunderstanding in your life and people don't really get you, you feel like people don't really get you, then that's probably what's happening, is that you're really not acting out who you truly think you are and want to be known for. So that's a particular dilemma that we have.
when we're trying to understand who we are as a brand. And that's what I help my solo professionals, emerging leaders. just did a workshop for University of Colorado Denver on Friday. And I had a group of staff council, about 45 people really wanting to understand better how they can lead through the lens of understanding their personal brand better and getting more empowered in that way.
it's a big thing to unpack. I know we're have a fun conversation about this and we've got a lot of great questions to kind of start digging more into.
Dee Davis (04:07)
Well, you bring up looking at your personal brand through the lens of leadership. I think that's really important for any leader to be very clear on who you are and what your leadership style is going to be and how you're going to show up for your people in any kind of a leadership position. So whether you're leading one person or you're leading 1,000 people,
You're kind of almost on a stage. People are looking at you for cues of acting in a way that is consistent with the things that you say. And I think that's a lot of the branding that you're talking about it's not just choosing your words, but it's also your behavior.
Suzanne Tulien (04:55)
Well, when you choose your words, you have to live the word through your actions and behavior. If you say one of your style attributes, and this is a collection of personality traits, I have an exercise around that we come up with for you. Let's say one of your personality traits is nurturing, You've got to start looking out, but what are the actions and behaviors of a nurturer?
And how do they listen? How do they react? How do they Take action on things? How do they approach problems? How do they solve issues? How do they develop culture? Those types of things. when you have that construct and you're super clear on what that looks like, you begin really creating some tangible actions and behaviors that should be aligned with who you are and authentic. If you're naming that attribute,
something that is organically you, Innately you.
Brad Wyant (05:53)
know thyself and all the world's a stage, very good advice. I think for some of us, knowing ourselves, especially when we're so close to the product, so close to ourselves, it can help to talk to somebody who understands perception as well as you do. I'm sure you've had instances where somebody thought, well, this is the way people perceive me. And you've had the opportunity to dissuade them of those delusions, perhaps. Is that a tough
conversation to have with folks.
Suzanne Tulien (06:24)
It is a tough conversation because There's no real fine line between forcing someone to think certain way about you because you can't control their mind and going inward and saying that these are the five attributes I am and I'm going to act and behave this way. I have control over how I'm delivering on what I believe.
I am and want to be known for. So I can't force someone to believe or to see the same things in the same way that I'm delivering, in a strategic way. So I might think that I'm acting in a nurturing way, but they may have some baggage from years and years of certain situations and challenges in their life that they cannot get beyond to
to have a sense of buying to what you're trying to deliver. So that's a fine line. And know that you don't have total control over somebody's mind, but you have total control over actions and behaviors in delivering on brand versus off brand as much as you possibly can. And no brand is universal, So we have to understand that we're never gonna please everyone all the time.
That's just something that we have to understand. And we have a tribe that we're going to convince and enlist, equip, and engage, and become our follower. And then there's going to be those people that never will, ever. So you've got to really focus on your actions and behaviors that appeal to the tribe that will take that on and have some buy-in and work with you. Good question.
Brad Wyant (08:06)
This is classic segmentation targeting and positioning. If you don't separate the market for yourself as a business person into different groups of, I am for these people, I'm not for these people. Let me understand how I could better reach the people I am for through targeting and then let me position myself in the right place for them. I love this metaphor somebody used. There's a company selling auto repair.
and they say foreign and domestic on their little billboard, right? We've all seen one of those signs on the side of the road. It's like, well, that doesn't give me any reason to believe that you're gonna be right for my car. If you say you're for every car, then why would I believe that you'll be right for my car? That's what it comes down to, the mechanics of it. If you're a good enough mechanic to work on any car, then you're very skilled mechanic, but you can't convey that in a billboard.
because people don't understand enough about it mechanics to understand that truth. saying that you're for everybody actually hurts you in the long run.
Suzanne Tulien (09:06)
Exactly right. That's what we're talking about for sure. You can't force anybody to believe something different than what they really truly want to believe in. And they're set on it, They're just not your market. They're just not your peeps. They're just not your tribe. And you gotta let that go.
Dee Davis (09:22)
Absolutely as podcasters this comes up in my podcasting groups all the time What happens when somebody says something bad about your podcast? They're not my people I I don't know what else to say not everybody's gonna love what you're doing and same thing happens as an author I'm an author Suzanne's an author Not everybody's gonna love your book. It's okay you are not gonna be everybody's cup of tea and for some people that is very hard pill to swallow
no one likes to be criticized or talked badly about
Suzanne Tulien (09:55)
it's a big dilemma for people not to be liked by everybody. And then they spend most of their time trying to be liked by everybody. And it dilutes who they really are in their own brand efforts to be known as something unique and different,
Dee Davis (10:12)
and how does that relate to self-esteem, Suzanne?
Suzanne Tulien (10:15)
You're trying to be everything to everybody. You can feel the dilemma there because it's impossible. And so it just creates a lot of stress and you're gonna get proven wrong a lot of the time because probably you're spending more effort trying to please people that are never pleased by your actions and behaviors.
just think about all that stress and then of course the self-esteem is going to go down. I'm working with teens now and doing a lot of personal brand work for teens because I think this needs to get down to that level, that age group and help them develop and discern differently as they grow older and make decisions by knowing better who they are.
I like to use the term self agency. The reason why I like that term is because it's foundational and it's really all about creating that decision in your mind that you are the author of your own life. Knowing yourself so well that you get to write the book of the rest of your life that you are not a product of your environment.
You're all the experiences you want to create. And so when you get that sense of clarity and understanding about who you are by knowing and literally identifying and defining those attributes that resonate with you, Dee, you know exactly what this is because you're in the process. When you get those goosebumps and you say, yes, that is me, I've identified and defined it, I've named
It feels good. It resonates a lot because cognitive resonance there. I want to become more of that. And when you make that decision, you become less vulnerable to your external environment situations. you become less reactive and all over the board out there trying to mitigate what's going on outside of yourself. And you become more internally driven.
So you're tapping into what makes you you more often make more authentic decisions that align with who you want to become known for. this is deep, right? I just did this workshop Friday and people in there just their jaws were dropping because they were realizing they have been out of control.
solving problems, putting out fires, doing this, doing that outside of themselves, and then not tapping in wisdom and expertise of what they know to be true. It's really powerful.
Dee Davis (12:56)
I bring up the self-esteem because I think a lot of people who spend their time and their energy and their life, they're writing their book for other people. I love the way you said that, You're the author of your own book. Absolutely you are. And trying to convince people that your book doesn't have anything to do with anyone else really.
It has to do with you. It's all about you. And that's everybody's favorite subject is themselves, right? So let's write a book about yourself. What does that beginning, middle and end look like? And when I see people who are not doing that, they are living their life for everybody and everything except themselves. And I don't mean
giving unselfishly. It's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about, and we mentioned in the last episode, cognitive dissonance, this is uncomfortable for me. I don't like it, but I'm going to do it anyway. There's unhappiness there. And that unhappiness drives your self-esteem and changes who you are on a daily basis. And you're no longer doing this for yourself. You're doing this for
someone else, your boss, your parents, your spouse. your friends or whoever is influencing you in your life. You are not defining your brand. are not living your brand and you are not able to achieve what you are capable of because you're doing this in your life.
Suzanne Tulien (14:34)
there's no room for authenticity when you're trying to be everything else,
Dee Davis (14:38)
Yeah. And you're going to be unhappy. to summarize, by defining your personal brand, you can figure out yourself a little bit. There's some deep, hard questions in there, folks. I've been through this process with Suzanne. There's some stuff that I'm like, this is uncomfortable. I don't like this. I don't want to do it. I have to think about it for a long time.
And you can change your mind too. as you're choosing the words and the attributes that define you. I know I changed my mind more than once on a couple of things because I'm like, you know what? I really thought about it. And I think that's the right word.
Suzanne Tulien (15:18)
You're peeling away the onion through the activity, through the exercise, You're playing around and drafting this concept of who you are. So things will adjust and change through this process. And then we're going to land on something, To be solid. We're going to end up landing on something, which you did very well.
Dee Davis (15:38)
I think it's Brene Brown that has that saying and this is in addition to some of this stuff that you've given me that really resonates with me. She has a saying that something like, that's out of my integrity. And it's the same kind of thing. If you're branding, it's off brand. it's.
not what I want to be known for, which is the sticky phrase that you use that I really like and go back to all the time. this is a path to a better you, is the overall message.
Suzanne Tulien (16:09)
A more authentic you, a more stress free you, a more confident you, a more you full of self agency, a higher esteemed you, better decision making you, All these things.
Brad Wyant (16:22)
And the fact of the matter is that that authenticity, which is a very commonly used word, maybe ill-used these days, works. When people sense that somebody is not being truthful, when they sense that someone is putting on airs doesn't take any intellectual training, it doesn't take a fancy education, anybody with some horse sense about people can tell when somebody is not being themselves and they will act accordingly.
There's a trust that you have to form with people to get anything done, business, interpersonal. If you can be your authentic self, communicate the authentic self and communicate the value in that authenticity and the fact of what you're trying to convey, then you're going to have more success than somebody who has all the same attributes you do, but is not able to communicate them in an authentic way and is not able to explain. The people who end up trying to be everything to everybody end up being known to no one.
everyone realizes, they're just trying to play this game of not saying anything too controversial, walking this middle path that doesn't get them anywhere. It's why politics swing to the edges. It's why people hear the most radical, interesting voice in the room. And the people that gravitate to that, the early adoption versus the people who come in late, it becomes a powerful movement as opposed to this peripheral thing that lives and dies in some.
annul of history. It's the people who say something radical, who have something meaningful to say about it, that end up being remembered.
Suzanne Tulien (17:53)
You know, Brad authenticity is overused and thrown around way too much without thought, without enough consciousness and understanding about what that actually means. When people claim that they are authentic and have not done the deep dive work to really identify and define who they are, what are you being authentic to? If you don't know, then you cannot possibly consistently be authentic. So authentic to what is the question,
to your personal brand's DNA. Whatever it is that you've done, the work you've done to identify those core values that you espouse and live by those writing principles, that set of style attributes, personality traits that you know to be true about who you are, understanding who you are and what makes a difference from your experiences to your personality traits, how you behave and react to things. All of these things are part of the whole wholeness that we call us.
Brad Wyant (18:48)
let's do another sort of deeper question like we did on the last episode about this issue. one of the things that I struggled with when I first started in the construction industry was that a lot of people that I surrounded myself with were get-it-done, hardcore, really deeply passionate people who were very productive. And I was much more of a thinker, much more of a
Well, let's sit back and armchair that out. Let's talk about that. What could that be? I was much more in my head, much more theoretical. And a lot of people that I've met very on in the industry didn't resonate with my way of thinking about things. And so I had to change that way of thinking a little bit to adapt to my environment. But I also had to stay true to my very detail oriented, very, I'm to go do.
six hours worth of research on this thing because I'm really interested in it I'm going to come back and that's going to be productive and carry it forward. When you realize as a professional that you don't quote unquote vibe, to use my generation's word, that you don't vibe with the industry naturally, how much do you need to adapt to the environment that you've found yourself in to be able to work within it, to learn from your peers and reshape your own practices, your own beliefs accordingly?
and how much do you need to stay true to the core values about yourself that are never going to change, where do you find that balance in a genuine honest way?
Suzanne Tulien (20:16)
Another great question there, Brad. I would say that there's a lot of distance that to be made by you and your comfortableness in in an environment that is not naturally fit for how you think and react. Right, so you've got to think about is this if this position that I'm in is requiring this quick thinking,
way of being on regular basis that's gotta be stressful for you when you are a thinker, are a processor, you are a theorist. You've got to understand that to begin with. But then I would also say that if I were you and I were wanting to be seen as a leader in that environment I would advocate for your own differentiation in how you come about solving problems. Advocate about the quality that
of decisions you can make by doing it the way you do it, What is the value proposition in having all this group of people over here doing these quick answers and 30 minutes later you come back with some deeper insights and thought around that. But I would advocate for yourself around the qualities that show up when that happens so that you can
create almost a new environment and a new culture and a new understanding and your teams embrace that quality that you can bring to the table, that deeper thinking, the more realistic solutions or you pull out things that they haven't thought about because they were very quick thinking, And some people are really good thinking on their feet, but some people like to process. I think an organization needs both, I think the position needs both.
So as a yourself for the qualities behind the time you take and the results that you produce because of what you're doing uniquely,
Brad Wyant (22:06)
Well put, thank you. think that's a great answer. Even if you are not the typical version of whatever industry you're in, differentiate and ascribe value to what you bring to the table. Demonstrate that value and that'll carry you well. Very well put.
Suzanne Tulien (22:20)
If you're not typically in the stereotype of that position, I show some examples in my workshop about this cop. And I'll ask the audience, what's the personality of a traffic cop? They throw out attributes. And then I show this video of this cop up in New England. And he is dancing and blowing his whistle.
doing the oop-doo-doo and pulling people around, getting back on his feet, doing line dancing and all kinds of great fun stuff that people travel to go see. So then I said, now what do you think the personality of a cop is? So when you're thinking in that stereotypical positioning, like a lawyer or a banker or even a scientist, I'm like, do you guys all know Bill Nye, the science guy?
he brought about science in a totally different, fun, crazy way that really brought a new way of thinking about scientists. you can infuse your own personalities into your positions and create great differentiation and respect and appreciation, There's lots of ways to do that. I wanted to bring about a concept that I showcase in my workshops,
This is a quote from Tom Watson, is a former CEO of IBM. He says, nothing more conclusively proves your ability to lead others than what you do on a daily basis to lead yourself.
I think a lot of that. we start out the workshop as being understanding that leadership is internal. It's an internal based process. Otherwise, if you're not tapping into who you are as a leader, you're really becoming more of an authority. You're using all these external systems and processes to gain authority over a group or a situation.
Dee Davis (24:09)
Yeah, the difference between leadership and management. I always look at it like this. You can give somebody the title of manager, project manager, department manager, division manager.
Leadership is awarded by others. You do not have to have a title to lead. You can be the lowest person on the proverbial totem pole and still lead. There's a huge difference between leadership and management. And I think that really
helps explain why some people are very capable leaders and some people are put in leadership positions and do a terrible job because they're not leading from within. they're leading from without.
Suzanne Tulien (24:57)
Exactly. If the currency of having an authority, like management, the currency of that was rules, following the rules, then what would the currency be of leadership?
Dee Davis (25:10)
integrity.
Brad Wyant (25:12)
people want to follow you people deciding you're somebody worth following
Suzanne Tulien (25:16)
Currency is trust, right? And integrity. So you've got this authority side, rules, and then the trust side. Very interesting, the differences. We actually have an activity, we're at the table in the workshop and decide what are the attributes of having an authority position versus a leadership role. And that's what comes out, right? It's really powerful.
Dee Davis (25:42)
we talked in the last episode of the difference between branding and marketing. marketing is something that you push outward to to market your brand, right? Branding is something that you do internally. And I know that when when I was naming my businesses, for example, I was very, very careful.
I have a very negative view of businesses that use words in their title in their name, or their statement, trust, integrity, honesty.
If you're out there announcing from the rooftops, we're honest company, honest consultancy. you can try to live that. You can try to demonstrate that through living your brand. But other people have to say that about you.
Suzanne Tulien (26:39)
Yes. And that's the dilemma. That's the work, right? there's got to be some coherence between the external perception and that internal perception and the actual doing a lot of people have an issue with their job and being known as this brand in their job. And I have to keep continuously telling them that
It's not what you're doing for a living. It's who you are being in your life. That's what your personal brand is about. So I could pluck you out of any position that you're in, but you're still who you are. And I'm going to put you in another position. And you're still that brand. It's not a title. It's not what you do for a living. It's who you are being.
Does that make sense?
Dee Davis (27:29)
It does. I've talked to a number of people who I think try to separate their personal and their business persona, if you will, by saying, I'm this person at work, but I'm a totally different person at home. I don't know how you can be two people. I think you have to be one person and maybe you're
You're not really being your true self in one of those places.
Suzanne Tulien (27:55)
Exactly, that's right. Because you can't if they are truly two separate people, you're inauthentic in one area. I think is actually happening that they don't realize is that they got a set of core values and a set of personality traits, but they're showing up in certain circumstances a little bit more so or less so.
in the environments that they're in. let's say they are a leader, but they don't feel like they're a leader at home, but they're definitely having to be a leader at work. these leadership qualities that they know they are, are showing up at work much more so than they are at home. For some reason, they're not feeling comfortable showing up as a leader at home. That's just an example.
Dee Davis (28:37)
I'm sure we've all worked with people that are tough to work with. And I know one of the things that I eventually think in my head is what is this person like at home?
Suzanne Tulien (28:48)
Yeah.
Dee Davis (28:48)
Do they act like this at home? Do they treat their family like this? My goodness.
Suzanne Tulien (28:54)
Yes.
there's another piece that I like to share with personal friends that I'm working with.
if I believe I am unworthy, Because it's in my mind, it's in my heart, it's in what I'm thinking about myself. And we can feel that energy from people that don't have that level of confidence or level of worthiness. But in going through a process like where I'm
I find defining these attributes that resonate with who I am and then now I can step in more and more into that. make better decisions and I can create my environments and I'm the author of my life back the driver's seat of who I am. If I get more confident in that process and I'm believing that I'm perceiving myself in my own thoughts as worthy and a leader and smart and I've got some expertise and I believe that.
then I'm going to start being perceived that way because I'm going to act that out. So literally, the clarity of the process shifts your actions and behaviors because you're landing on an understanding and an idea that resonates with you so much that you're falling into it. This isn't about creating something that you're not because that's never sustainable in any situation
it's like me being this way at home in this way at work, That's stressful. The cortisol levels are up and your body is trying to compensate for everything and your mind's compensating. But it's the clarity piece that, using a coach like what I was doing with you, it's helping you get down to that nut and challenging you about the attributes that you chose that you can actually live this.
Is this natural? it organic? Is it comfortable for Dee to live this way? Absolutely. When it is, let's go to town. Let's start talking about it now. Let's put it on your resume. Let's put it in your vernacular. Let's infuse that into your actions and behavior so people are starting to feel that about you. And then you become known for that, bottom line.
Dee Davis (31:03)
you kind of alluded to one of the sayings that I see out there a lot or but I don't think people take it to heart enough is whatever you tell yourself is true. If you tell yourself you're gonna fail, you will fail. If you tell yourself you're gonna succeed, you will succeed. Professional sports coaches talk about this kind of stuff all the time and professional athletes talk about this stuff all the time.
You visualize yourself making the basket, making the field goal, succeeding, whatever that means in your particular position. What does that look like? You visualize success and you constantly talk to yourself. Your self-talk matters tremendously. Not just in the level of success that you're gonna see in the long run, but
in your own mental health and your stress levels what you tell yourself matters. That internal voice that we all have, and I don't care how much you know this or how successful you are, you're still gonna have an internal voice that occasionally pops up and goes, you suck. Happens to me all the time. Happens to me all the time. I'm a very confident person. I still have a little voice that goes, you're not gonna get that. You suck. This isn't gonna work.
Suzanne Tulien (32:10)
Mm-hmm.
Dee Davis (32:21)
And I go, no, shut up. We're not gonna think about it like that. I'm gonna succeed. This is gonna work. You have to manage those inner voices.
Suzanne Tulien (32:24)
Yeah
We have this process and you know this because you have this now written down documented on paper when you're getting a rut and you forget greatness that you are, you go back into your handbook, Your official personal brand handbook. You read through your attributes and your mission and remember who you want to become known for and it resonates with you and then you you know you change your vibration. Obviously you get back to thinking the right way.
way that's more congruent and aligned with who you are and obviously yourself. esteem goes up and everything shifts
Dee Davis (33:10)
we all have our ups and downs, I'm mostly up here, but once in a while I drop off and I get a little demotivated and I have different things that I do to help get that internal motivation that we were talking about happening again, because that is the only thing that is going to continue to drive you. It's not somebody cracking a whip on you. I don't have anybody to crack a whip on me. I don't have a boss. I am my boss.
There is nobody to crack a whip on me. I have to be internally motivated to succeed at whatever I do, whether it's writing the next book or making a great podcast or doing a great job on this project for a client or whatever it is. We all have our ups and downs. I do want to ask you to list for our listeners, what are the
critical attributes that go into creating a good personal brand.
Suzanne Tulien (34:06)
Okay, it's very similar to the business brand, but it is it's some. Record in a more personal way. There are a few extra buckets we pay attention to in the personal brand versus the business brand. I'll start off saying that core values are probably the top. These guiding principles that help you lean into making decisions that are in alignment with who you want to be known for and.
who you are as a person. So we do an exercise around core values identifying and defining them, how you would define them as yourself. And then there's a set of core, we'll call style attributes. And these are the personality traits that you will be identifying that really stand out and are your default personality traits. So when we get those identified, then we go into defining those as well.
And the definitions themselves are much more the meaty part of this exercise and this process because it forces you to put your shoes on in your family environment. How do you show up that way in your work environment? How do you show up that way in your community with friends? How do you, guide your own wellness and wellbeing? What decisions do you make in that space
So that makes it real and tangible for you and realize that hey, this is actually who I am and I can actually make these decisions are more in alignment with how I want to show up every day. Then We really unpack and have a lot of fun with your differentiators. the awards You may have gotten the unique skill sets that you have.
If you speak several languages, if you've traveled many countries, philosophy, all of these differentiators that make you you as a bundle of who you are. Then we get into something called the standard of living which is five buckets. And that's what I was talking about. Your family, your work environment, community, relationships, friend relationships, your wellness,
and well-being could include your faith and also your financial situation, how you manage finances and live your life. So you get into those and we start applying those attributes into standards of living so that you can begin to create goals and standards for yourself to be more conscious strategic and deliberate in living those.
And then another fun piece is your brand mantra. And I was going to ask you, Dee, if you remember your brand mantra and say it on a regular basis and brand why statement we craft so that when you do get into those ruts sometimes you get off the brand, so to speak, and you get consumed by the external environment situation and you forget to go internal and realize who you really are.
These are those tools, the brand mantra and brand why statement are the tools that help you get out of that. I've got a lot more information on my website as well.
Do you have your mantra? What is your mantra, Dee?
Dee Davis (37:16)
I have to confess, I have not even looked at it in a while. But this is life though, guys. we are imperfect. do I know the basics of it? Absolutely. I try to think about that and live that every day.
Suzanne Tulien (37:34)
haha
Well, this will maybe trigger you to go back and just kind of get that fresh in your mind again. Because it's a great reset. When you're overwhelmed with life and you're off-brand a little bit here and there, it's great reset to have that work to go back to. ⁓
Brad Wyant (37:51)
I
was gonna say Dee this is your podcast homework for the week since I'm writing the next episode. You gotta you gotta go do your thing here
Dee Davis (37:57)
Yep, Dee goes back to her room and does her homework. But it was a really great experience going through this personal branding exercise with Suzanne. it was hard, I'm not going to lie. It's work. when you got into how do you show up in all these different pieces of your life? I found that difficult because I guess I never sat back and thought about it before.
I feel like I've most of my life done a pretty good job of showing up as my genuine self in all my roles in life. But it did make me really sit back and think deeply about some of those roles.
I want to do more in some of these roles, but I'm not doing it. Why is that?
Brad Wyant (38:40)
I was like, here's some of the veterans of the construction industry listening to this kind of thing being discussed as work and saying, well, work is when you're putting two by fours up and when you're building scaffold, when you're getting piped down. It's like, all right, yes, that is work. But if you can't acknowledge that these difficult self-actualization conversations, that these reviews of your own behavior and how you show up are work,
then maybe you're afraid to do this kind of work is the challenge I would give the people who are in that mindset. I was, when I went to business school, it was like, all right, come on, what are we doing here? We're all talking about our feelings. When I was in construction, this and know, blah, blah, blah. But it is work and it's intimidating because it's facing yourself with yourself and doing this kind of introspection that many of us have never done because we hoped we wouldn't have to because the work.
that came most naturally to us was a craft or making things right in the spreadsheet or making a great slide deck and talking about somebody else's problems, speaking as a consultant, that's much easier, that comes a lot easier to us than talking about ourselves. But if you can learn to do this kind of work, you will be better for it. It's going to make you better at whatever it is that you actually want to be doing. It's going to improve your performance in that core competency.
Suzanne Tulien (40:01)
that's a good point that you bring about that people aren't used to going inward, right? They're not used to touching base with who they are. if you've ever thought of the phrase that's out there that says, Is this my life now? Is this all there is? I feel like a robot, If you've ever thought or felt that way, and you want more meaning in your life,
This is the process. This is something like this, right? Start going inward. Start having your external circumstances be less and less important in more of your inner work, the driver of your happiness, the driver of your wellbeing. being in the driver seat of your life. Like we talk about being your self-author.
If you're wanting more meaning in life, then go inward. It's not about I'm going to go hike Mount Everest. It's really about what is that drive inside of you that wants you to get to that spot? Are you clear on that? And then acting it out.
Dee Davis (41:03)
Yeah, self work is always the hardest work for sure. It's so much easier to go erect a building, put together a wall, put up some dry wall, that stuff. That's outside of you. That's a learned skill that you can easily go execute once you're good at it without a whole lot of thought or energy. it's just work. This kind of work
It can get a little deep sometimes and it can be a little uncomfortable, but it's well worth the journey, I would say. If somebody wanted to create their own personal brand, to help themselves in their personal life, in their business life, increase their reputation, their confidence, how long does it take to build a brand and really see some results out of that?
Suzanne Tulien (41:52)
Well, as you know, the clarity piece is primary. It's the first thing that we need to is clear on who we are before we go out and market it and build an audience around knowing that, right? We have to not only identify and be ourselves, have to start operating in that concept that we've created in the assigning of meaning process, That's what a brand is, branding is about assigning meaning.
When we say developers brand, I would rather say uncover the true attributes that make me who I am. We as beings when we find something, discover something. The first thing we do, scientists, astronomers, we name it. We have to name it and that name gives us meaning and then we define what that is so.
we go through that process of unpeeling the onion and really landing on those attributes that make us who we are and then define that, that's the first process. And then we start infusing it into our daily actions and behaviors and what we do. And this process could take, you know, if you're a do it yourself and you get the book, Personal Brand Clarity, which is like a textbook, all the activities are in here. It walks you through step by step.
You can do it as fast as you want, As fast as you can read, as fast as you can plug in the information and build content, get the results out of the exercises. When you're working with me, I recommend we go through each module or each chapter, one or two weeks, so that you have time to process, flush it out, make, hone in and make those changes that you need to make and clarify.
And working with me could be a five week process. It could be a six month process if you want help actually diving in and making it tangible in the world. And doing the social media marketing and doing all of that stuff that would help the external perception match now who you believe you are and how you're showing up. So it's an it depends answer Dee to that question. But it's how bad do you want it? How quick?
Do you want it and how willing are you to take that deep dive and do the work?
Dee Davis (44:10)
Yeah, and having done it myself, I would say that some people are a dive in head first and get this done as quickly as possible kind of people. Some of this takes some reflection. were times when I set the work aside. I got to a spot that was hard and I thought, gosh, I don't know how to answer this question. I need to think about it. And I'd set it aside for a few days or even a week.
and then I'd come back to it because sometimes you really just need to process that and you're not necessarily doing the work if you're speeding through it as fast as humanly possible to get it done. It's not a check the box kind of activity. It's a deep thinking, gosh, I never considered that before at least in a few spots. And it's gonna be different for everybody, I'm sure.
But I wouldn't say that, it's as fast as you can read the book and check the boxes. I would definitely say that you want to take your time because your results are going to be better. And I did. thought I would say 90 % of the way through. And I said, you know what? I'm not happy with one piece of this. It doesn't feel right. I don't like that word. I don't think that's
really the right answer. And it took me a while to figure out what the right answer was. And then I remember emailing you back and going, nope, I'm changing this word. I'm changing this word to this different word and this is what it means to me. And it's okay.
Suzanne Tulien (45:44)
The only reason you could do that is because you had something to look at and decide if this is on brand or off brand. So you did the work, and then you realized that that wasn't quite gelling with you. because you had contrast, right? That's the only way you could have made that decision and dive deeper and peel away that next onion, and you decided to work with me. So you had a coach.
that challenged you on some of your answers, right? So we had great conversations about is this true to you? What do you mean by this? And if you're saying this, how does that actually show up in what you're doing out there, And so that was helpful for you. you can race through the book, but if you decide to work with somebody who's gonna challenge you, you'll get deeper and broader and
more honed in on your answers and probably more aligned with who you're trying to become known for
Dee Davis (46:37)
I think the result was better for me at least in working with you directly. Question for you, do you think that this stuff could change over time for somebody?
Suzanne Tulien (46:47)
if we've done the right work in the right way and we got deep enough and foundationally enough, then I would say that your core values and your attributes generally shouldn't change. The way you deliver on those might change because you're in different situations and different circumstances. But that basic fundamental
selection of attributes that you believe you are shouldn't change. But your differentiators might change. The way you live your life through the standard of living might change because you're evolving. You're moving into different levels of being at those attributes. that's what's going to subtly change as you continue to evolve. I wouldn't say you would eventually wipe out everything and then start over.
that means that we didn't get to the core in the first place. Unless you you know had an accident you lost your mind and don't remember anything about your world in your life and you become a different person when you get your memory back or something like that that would be a rebranding effort.
Dee Davis (47:53)
Yes it would!
Well, let's hope that doesn't happen.
Suzanne Tulien (47:56)
Hahaha!
Dee Davis (47:58)
So Brad, are you ready to go do some personal branding work?
Brad Wyant (48:01)
You bet, that's the idea. That after I finish unpacking.
Suzanne Tulien (48:04)
I'm
Dee Davis (48:05)
So in the show notes, we're gonna have for you a couple of links to a personal brand Kickstarter toolkit It's a link to where you can sign up for her personal brand Kickstarter toolkit for free. And then there's also in the business cast, if you listen to that episode, we'll have one for an employer branding assessment.
and we'll have lots of contact information. Suzanne, do you have any closing comments for our listeners?
Suzanne Tulien (48:35)
if this is sparking something in you, go play around with this toolkit. This will give you some idea as to a deeper dive into understanding who you are and who you want to be known for. And it is work, but it is work that has such a high ROI, Return on your investment, whether that investment is money, if you're just 20 bucks for the book or a little bit more for the program with my help.
That investment is so powerful as you are evolving and continuing to want to have more meaning in your life and be who you want to be known for. check it out.
Dee Davis (49:11)
Well, it was a great experience for me. I hope some of you listening will give it a try and contact Suzanne. Go to her website, check out what she's got to offer, or if you get the chance to see her speak. She's actually a very wonderful and dynamic speaker.
Suzanne Tulien (49:27)
Thank you, dear.
Brad Wyant (49:27)
It's been so great to meet you Suzanne. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing your work with us.
Suzanne Tulien (49:32)
Thank guys so much. Really appreciate the time and the great questions.
Dee Davis (49:36)
Thanks everybody, we'll see you next time.
Dee Davis (49:40)
For any of you who may be wondering, Dee did do her homework. So here is my brand style, my values, and my statement. My brand style is efficient, functional, protective, and conservation-minded. I value honesty, responsibility, tenacity, and knowledge.
My personal brand mantra is conservation, honest, responsible, and tenacious, or chart, little a for short. My personal brand why is I exist to enlighten and inform others honestly and responsibly, accelerating skills, knowledge, and helping to set and exceed big, hairy, audacious goals. I pledge to keep conservation at the forefront of all things I do in all aspects of my life.
This process of going through personal branding was for me very, very helpful, very enlightening and very hard. I'm not gonna lie. When I look back at my brand mantra, It took me forever to narrow it down to these four words, conservation, honest, responsible and tenacious. My personal brand why I think speaks more to who I am.
in business than who I am in personal, and I had a really difficult time separating those two. I highly encourage you to contact Suzanne and work with her on your personal branding, your business branding, and everything in between. Thanks for joining us.
