Dave Oates (00:00)
These crises moments tend to really test executives and their teams to be able to adequately convey in a very authentic, empathetic, and action-oriented manner at times where people are calling their reputations and the questions or questioning whether or not they are actually gonna walk the walk or talk the talk. And these usually come out of nowhere. They're not expected, but they can throw years of...
good karma as I call it right out the window if not managed correctly. I crassly say I get called when the shit hits the fan.
Dee Davis (00:30)
Good morning and welcome to Management Under Construction. I'm Dee Davis and I'm here today with Dave Oates. Dave and I met just recently. We were both guests on our friend, Jeff Klubeck's Integrity Game 90 Day Challenge. And Dave was so intriguing with his area of expertise. I thought it was absolutely essential that we get him on this podcast as soon as possible. Dave is an expert in
PR crisis communications. So no matter what kind of business you're in, you're gonna have a crisis at some point. Dave, can you tell us a little bit more about your company and what you do?
Dave Oates (01:11)
Yeah, I'm the guy business owners and executives never hope they have to call because what's happened is an event of some sort, whether it's internally generated, whether it's external with customers or something out of their control, but it's now permeating what I call the public domain. that's Instagram, social media, online reviews, a blog or
Even worse, the press organizations are now getting questioned as to whether they're being authentic, whether they're actually being genuine to their employees, their customers, their business partners, if they have some investors and things of that nature. And I'm helping them communicate through bad situations. These crises moments tend to really test executives and their teams to be able to adequately convey in a very authentic, empathetic, and action-oriented manner at times where
People are calling their reputations and questioning whether or not they are actually going to walk the walk or talk the talk. And these usually come out of nowhere. They're not expected, but they can throw years of good karma, as I call it right out the window, if not managed correctly. So I crassly say I get called when the shit hits the fan and, uh, and it's usually at that moment. So I'm grateful to do it. love, I love helping good organization, good people communicate their way through bad situations. Give a little bit of space.
and be able to get back to normal operations as quickly as possible.
Dee Davis (02:36)
It's absolutely true. we say it on this cast all the time that trust is hard won and easily lost. It can take a single event for that to happen, whether that's in your personal relationships, your business relationships, or within your company. It can happen to anyone and it happens more often than we would like to think.
Dave Oates (02:56)
usually because of situations that are outside of their control or blind spots. It's not because of some malicious intent.
Dee Davis (03:02)
That's very true. It doesn't mean you necessarily even did anything wrong. It just means that somebody has the impression that maybe you did something wrong, whether it was intentional or not. Why is it important for companies to think about crisis communication before a crisis occurs?
Dave Oates (03:20)
Because what typically happens in a crisis is the level of chaos and anxiety that are not only exhibited by somebody who's making some sort of allegation, but that the business owners and the executives themselves, is logic tends to go out the window. You get into this, what I call the fight or flight mode. You tend to not want to say anything at all because it's uncomfortable or you're not exactly sure of all the particulars or all of the answers. Or you may not necessarily just want to admit.
things that are wrong to them because that's a very scary position for people to be in. But we all have inherent risks to our business. Construction companies certainly not withstanding just from the risks that are involved in an onsite project, let alone all the other things that could go wrong from employee mishaps to employee relations to customer relations and all the other things that any business has. So planning for those in advance as you would for any risk management initiative.
I think is important, right? As a construction company, you're already mitigating risks in terms of operational, workplace safety, those kinds of things. Planning for what to do if those instances occur, even despite your best intentions to prevent them. Having a discipline and having sort of a holding statements and understanding as to what to say to whom, when to say, when those events would be a great place to start.
because in those times of chaos, you won't have the right mindset, but you also quite frankly won't have the time to figure out what to say to whom and when. You need to plan for those in advance and you can.
Dee Davis (04:53)
Okay, is there such a thing as planning for this too early?
Dave Oates (04:56)
I really don't think so. think any business at any size and any stage should plan for that. those, like any other risk management strategies, those documents should not just stay on a virtual shelf in your Google drive or, you know, on a physical shelf somewhere in a binder. You really do need to treat them as living documents. Your business changes, your client changes, the projects change. You go from one construction to another. And even though they may have similarities from previous work.
They all are going to have unique set of circumstances and environments and you should modify those accordingly. Those don't necessarily take a lot of time, particularly if you keep training to them, but you never should wait to do that until maybe you say, we'll wait for a bigger project. Wait till we really are in a place where we've never been before. I don't, I don't subscribe to that. And I've seen even small instances that you don't think are big deals right away cascade to something large that
really damage your reputation. And that's a bad place for construction companies to be in, particularly if they're going out to bid for future projects, when you've got this little annoying circumstance that now is blown up to a full blown crisis, because you didn't prepare early enough.
Dee Davis (06:07)
And one of the things that happens, this would be considered an overhead expense doing crisis preparation and crisis planning. And one of the mistakes that I think we make very often in the construction industry is we say, well, this is an overhead expense and, you know, our overhead budget is limited. We want to wait till we have a big project. Maybe we could put it on a project cost or something like that.
Delaying this seems like a terrible, terrible idea. And it's sort of a matter of when, not if, this is going to happen to you and your company, right?
Dave Oates (06:43)
give you an example. had a, I had a company not in the construction space, but that a company had to recall a certain amount of product in a national distribution. And they only had to recall a very small percent, like 1 % of the total product line because it was just manufactured improperly. It wasn't, it wasn't bad. was, it was a, it was a vodka line. It wasn't toxic. It wasn't not just, but it, just didn't taste right.
When they recalled it, they didn't do any real follow-up communications. They were gonna allow the retailer to do that. And the problem with that is the retailer waited until it became an issue with their clients before they put anything out. And then when they did, all hell broke loose. And it became this cascading indictment, I guess, on the manufacturers, the best way I would describe it, to the point that it wasn't only that line that was being called into question, was all of the other lines that were being called into question by...
people, all their other manufacturing partners and all their other distributors for all their other lines. And we're now wondering, is there a bigger issue? And what could have been a two day matter that could have been resolved in such short order wound up impacting two full fiscal quarters of revenue and profitability. And so think about it, not only just the expense on me, right? It's like, well, yeah, we may pay you a little bit more to help out in times of crisis. Yeah, it's going to be more expensive to bring somebody in like me to help you with that.
But really, I'm more worried about the fact that they lost revenue and profitability for two quarters, had to reset expectations for their investors and for their shareholders. But also think about the market share they lost. Think about the cost of trying to get all that back. Because I guarantee in that space like construction, plenty of other competition around there that would beg for the chance to compete against you at a time of your great weakness. having that.
planning ahead, those kind of contingency plan in place. Yeah, it's overhead, but it's cheap when you think about what risk you're putting in to the company overall in the long term should something go south.
Dee Davis (08:45)
Yeah, absolutely. Delaying is not going to help you. And in the construction world, this means you could definitely be losing contracts in the meantime. How has social media changed the PR landscape?
Dave Oates (08:59)
It's, it's, it's unearthed, I guess. And I don't think for the, for the wrong reasons, the challenge with social media now is that it's, it's created both an opportunity, but also a hindrance to organizations to be able to convey message cleanly and effectively. The opportunity is they can now be their own broadcasters. I don't have to wait for a news report to come out with a statement that I have written. Hopefully get it right.
and put it in proper context. I can do that on my own if I have a robust social media presence. And for construction companies in particular, I will say when I've had conversations with owners, they go, well, we don't do social media. We are very much in a position where we get all our business through relationships and nobody watches. We don't get any leads from that. And I say, okay, fair, but.
Your reputation is won or lost online when somebody takes a pot shot at you. So having a robust social media platform for which you can convey messages is a hindrance because it's extra time. Now you got to deal with other people that are making complaints, but if you leverage it right and you build a community and somebody tries to take exceptions to something you perceived to have done or did, and you could come out with some messaging from that, your community will rally around you and will help you.
maintain operations, not only just getting back, but maintain your operations, maintain your growth opportunities, maintain your profitability, maintain your revenue. And I think that's absolute credit.
Dee Davis (10:30)
Yeah, social media is a blessing and a curse. I feel like we all have that feeling from time to time that it's a blessing and a curse. can help you and it can hurt you. Absolutely. At the same time. So how can companies build brand trust with their community and their customers before a crisis happens?
Dave Oates (10:41)
Without a doubt.
I thank you for that, because that's a question I get asked a lot of time. And it's investing in that, recognizing your brand is an incredible, intangible, oftentimes asset that is directly tied to your ability to generate new revenue, but also to stay profitable. Not only in terms of repeat business, repeat clients with whatever entity you have in there, private businesses, developers, municipalities, state, whatever your market is.
but also an employee retention at a time where employees will jump to the next opportunity without batting so much as an eye because you've created this communication strategy that relies on building a community, generating feedback and buy-in. And that can start first off internally. I don't care what business you're in and certainly construction falls into that. I don't care how big your organization is. I don't care the size. When you're dealing with a crisis,
Talk to your employees first. Let them know what's going on. Arm them with the information that they need to make sure that when somebody else calls in, when a client, when somebody on site from, you know, pick whatever entity goes in and they're asking those people, hey, what's this I'm hearing about such and such? That those employees are able to convey what's going on instead of saying, I have no idea what's happening. No one's talked to us. This place quite frankly is kind of jacked up.
Cause that's what will happen if you leave them out of the conversation. So start with employee newsletters, maybe an employee internal channel, like a Slack channel or Yammer or pick your favorite internal WhatsApp, whatever the case may be, discord. don't care. Just something where you're continually updating your teammates. You're continually letting them know what's going on, not only about the project, but about the company in general that could take maybe 15, 20 minutes a week. It doesn't have to be that long.
But when a time of crisis, you've already got the communication lines up to say, Hey, we want to let you be the first to know what's happening. Here's what we're doing about it. If somebody calls and asks you about that or news organizations calls, let us know. But in the meantime, we wanted to make sure you knew what was happening. That's first and foremost. then build up your brand in the same vein through social media channels and internal newsletters and a decent website in construction. And again, I know this is overhead, but in times of crisis, people are going to look to that.
to find out who you really are. And if you're somebody who is open, authentic, transparent, genuine, that will come through time and time again in those set of circumstances. And also give you the same vehicles by which you can convey what's going on, no matter who is talking to whom, right? You don't have to wait for a third party to possibly get it right or instill their own opinion on the matter. And I think that's really fair. So invest in that
internet brand presence, invest in internal communications engines, invest in client communications that will help you maintain community. Because people will know who you are and you're not gonna let somebody else steal the narrative in absence of you participating, because that's what normally happens.
Dee Davis (13:59)
Exactly. This ties into several episodes that we've had recently on the cast. When we had brand presence expert, Suzanne Tulene do two episodes with us, one on business branding and one on personal branding. And that's exactly what she's talking about is you have a brand, whether you like it or not, and you're in control of it. If you want to be clients, your customers, your employees, they're going to make your brand for you.
if you don't make it yourself and that might not be what you want it to be. And we also had an episode where we talked about communication with your employees. And when you hide things from them or you don't communicate well with them about something that's going on, they already know. And now they're going to spend all their time speculating about what's really going on instead of doing their work, making you money.
all the things that you're paying them to do. And instead they're sitting there gossiping around the water cooler about what's going on.
Dave Oates (14:58)
Well, and it's not even just the water cooler, as you described it, because that water cooler is now virtual with these wonderful little devices that we all carry around in our pockets. Everyone is a broadcaster. was talking about how organizations could use the power of that, but you also understand your employees have as much, if not more influence than you do for that. And that's a change over the last 20, 25 years, right? There was one directional, everybody, you had an email, you sent it out there, maybe at all hands. And for the public.
You relied on a couple of news stations locally and some nationally, and that was about it. Now everybody has the power to state an opinion, disparage an organization, fill the void with speculation, as you put it, without so much as bat an eye. You don't even have to leave your office desk, your mother's basement, if that's who you are, or other things like that in order to convey information. You can do so at a moment's notice. And when they do, they're usually doing it with anger.
They're dealing with great anxiety. They're doing it with some sort of great emotions. And we all know, and I don't speak from a position of moral authority. I am just as much culpable of this. In those moments, you're not necessarily thinking clearly. So your tone is very dramatic. You get very animated and it just, it just adds to the drama. And then that's just more expensive for an organization to try to counter. And it gets more expensive and harder. The longer you wait, the less prepared you are. It's just the fact.
Dee Davis (16:24)
One of the potential crises that we talked about in our episode was about when your company is going through major growth or major retraction, how to support your employees in that and how to communicate with your employees about the growth and the retraction. And I used a client of mine as an example of a little project that I got to work on with a client that was experiencing massive growth, rapid growth, which is a great place to be. It's a good problem to have.
but it can also be very, very anxiety producing to your employees. That's a type of crisis as well as the retraction part. you experience a sudden retraction in business that was or was not anticipated, everybody's anxiety level goes up and communication becomes even more important. One of the types of crises that we typically see in the construction industry is if you have a major accident on site.
So this can result in lots of meetings with organizations like OSHA, insurance companies, you can end up on the news, all these kinds of really icky things can happen. What's been your experience with that kind of situation, Dave?
Dave Oates (17:37)
I got one right now, not in the construction industry, but in the shipping industry where a peer operator had a ship that had just come in and as they were offloading containers, about a third of the containers spilled right into the water. Thankfully, no one was hurt, but that's a lot of damage to a lot of materials and a lot of goods that then, as you would expect, prompted a port investigation, prompted a Coast Guard investigation. And even in that, what I'll call
Lucky instance, because lucky, no one got hurt. There are so many different layers of investigations going on. And after the initial announcements and all of that were played into it, where I'm forecasting or where I'm at least my eye is, and I've been trying to convey this to all parties is the next thing to happen will be when the investigation is concluded and the regulatory entities.
are gonna start saying what happened by whom and who's at fault. And that's where the lawsuits are gonna start to fly. That's when the accusations are going to start to really take effect because now people are gonna question the capabilities of all the operators, whether or not their contract should be renewed, whether they should still have their contract, whether it go through some sort of review process, whether it's gonna cost them more just to operate in the short term for this one there. Let alone all of the litigation
expenses that are about rate of forthcoming. And this is where I tend to tend to think there's a balance because I get a lot of times where when I'm working with law firms who are great in those regards, they're extremely experienced. They will be so inclined to say almost nothing, or at least as much of nothing as they can, because they don't want to risk any further litigation. They don't want to say anything in the public domain that then can be under deposition. And I get that. But there is a point at where you can prevent
litigation to the degree at which you no longer have a business. Because again, as we talked about in just the preceding topic was everybody's a broadcaster. People will fill the narrative and oftentimes with falsehoods or at least things completely out of context or partly out of context that will be detrimental to a brand reputation. And I've seen it where organizations have understandably said nothing because they want to prevent as much litigation as possible.
to the point that they have seriously hurt their business if not gone out of business. Here's a news flash. The lawsuits are coming. I hate to say that, but they are. So we all need to be prepared to respond to that one. And we all need to be prepared to maintain operations and convey information to people starving to hear from.
Dee Davis (20:16)
Yeah. And I think that's what happens in organizations is that the lawyers get involved and it's like you hear that pucker. Everybody's freaks out and gets silent because they're terrified of saying the wrong thing. I've personally been involved in a couple of depositions. One was a claim of sexual harassment on a project and a couple of disability fraud ones.
Which the disability thing is with construction is a big deal because people are doing physical work and they can get hurt and you have to put them on light duty and get medical treatment and all these other things. The companies have behaved so secretively.
Like everything's a gigantic secret. Nobody's allowed to talk about anything. And that's what the lawyers will always tell you is talk to as few people as possible. Everybody knows things, especially the people that were on the site or around at the time. Sometimes they're not even interviewed or asked about what was going on. And so the whispering starts. So what I think I'm hearing you say is that's not really the best approach to take as a company.
Dave Oates (21:16)
The short answer is yes. Let's, let's start with that. But I recognize that there are nuances to that. So maybe that's, that's a, that's a better way to say there are, there isn't an either or it's not just, you know, yes, you have to go all in or no, you don't go in at all. I think there's, there's a time and place, but I would submit to you that for most organizations, the time or place to be as transparent as you can is probably more often than not. So
Oftentimes organizations, particularly well-established ones like construction companies and other traditional industries will default to say in very rare circumstances, will we be proactive in our communications, will be complete and will be transparent for all the reasons that we've talked about. And I say the opposite is really true. The only time you really want to say absolutely shouldn't say anything is when you violate employee privacy. When you're discussing matters that
are part of an ongoing investigation, or you are unclear as to what the facts are because in a time of, you said, let's say I'm a pretty significant accident at a construction site. You don't know all the facts, but to the degree you know what you know, you should convey it. And then at least show full faith effort to do so. Two cardinal rules at any crisis event from a communication standpoint is you have to show empathy and you have to show action.
And that means you have to convey that people are concerned. People are curious. People are interested in knowing more. And in many cases, because of that, they're anxious because of the uncertainty. They don't know all the things. And you being no express the fact is we understand that here's what we know so far and here's what we're doing today. And here's what we're trying to find out. Is it going to put everybody back in your camp? No, but it'll put.
the right people back in your camp, it'll put the more influential people back in your camp. And you can then get some space to take action and to follow up normal operations. The key is to then continue that conversation. It's not a one and done. It's not like you can just put out a statement and forget about it and go on about your merry way. You've mentioned it earlier. It's the over communications and time of crisis that are essential. But I would say that that is probably the position most organizations should take.
recognizing that maybe you can't say all the things for the reasons I just talked about, but not saying anything is a bad idea.
Dee Davis (23:45)
completely agree because as you say, the silence will be filled with speculation, truths, untruths, who knows what. And it's certainly a waste of everyone's time and energy and potentially could spawn rumors that have nothing to do with what's actually happening. Does your company handle speaking to the press on behalf of clients or do you just train people to do that or how does that work?
Dave Oates (24:11)
We have, and I have certainly spoken on behalf of clients in certain instances. I don't do it as the first offering. In fact, I think it, some cases and a lot of cases, it would be detrimental to do so. Now I've been in this business 30 years. I've been a Navy officer turned Navy public affairs officer. I've worked for in-house for software companies and tech companies, and I've certainly done my own. I am, I am very well versed in spokesperson duties, both for news organizations as well as.
town hall, live events and things like that. It's not something that I find off putting. I'm very comfortable in those settings, but in time of crisis, people need to hear from the people in charge. They need to hear from the leaders. They need to hear from those who are the ones who are going to be responsible and ultimately accountable to fix whatever the issue is, even if it's miscommunication. A spokesperson in front of that, particularly when the audience is no, I have been brought in because the shit just hits the fan.
tends to not give that authentic, empathetic, and action oriented tone that you want. So no, I strongly recommend that organizations consider doing that there. And that's nine times out of 10. That's what I do. The only instances that I have sort of spoken on behalf of an organization is when, and the one came to mind as I worked with an organization that operated 50 nursing homes throughout California and Nevada during COVID. And quite frankly, the
the intensity of that time period at the outbreaks when there were so many residents and healthcare workers that were being hospitalized and unfortunately passing away, there wasn't enough time. I wanted to make sure that those people were able to maintain the operations in that same level of intensity and not be burdened by talking to press and the like. So I became the spokesperson, but that's truly one of the rare exceptions.
that I have encountered over the last several years.
Dee Davis (26:08)
One time I did a leadership training in the construction industry and we had a role playing exercise and everybody got assigned different roles. And the role that I got assigned was to be the person that communicated with the press about a major accident happened. And the teachers, the instructors were the ones that played the press. So they were not easy on me. It was very nerve wracking. I can only imagine what that's like in real life.
Dave Oates (26:37)
I have done and do media training. And I call it generally speaking, media training for clients where I take them through circumstances and not just for press interviews, but also adverse matters pertaining to employee town hall meetings or client calls or things like that. Because again, it's that authenticity. It's that genuineness. It's that empathy that has to be expressed by the people who have to fix this, who are in charge, who are leading the brand.
reputation who are leading the organization to have to do that. People know that you bring in somebody like me to do that. actually has the opposite effect. It, it, it tends to be viewed upon by audiences and understandably so as they put a barrier between them and the entity. it's, becomes disingenuous in many respects.
Dee Davis (27:23)
It's almost like having a loiter do your talking for you. It's like, wait a minute, what are you hiding?
Dave Oates (27:30)
It's so true. I think you've nailed it on that one. So spot on.
Dee Davis (27:34)
when we were both on Jeff's show, we were guests on learning week. So that's one of the things that I loved about you when I met you is that we are both all about learning management or construction is all about learning and making ourselves better as managers, as leaders, as business owners. and, my company, Yellowstone professional education, that's a hundred percent what we do.
Dave Oates (27:57)
Nice.
Nice.
Dee Davis (27:58)
lifelong learning. that I see that PR security services also provides training. Can you tell us a little bit more about the training that you provide?
Dave Oates (28:06)
really goes along with the planning aspect that we talked about is helping organizations not need somebody like me. Not only because they're preparing for a crisis that may occur, but just because of the inherent risks that are involved in their business, like there is for any other business. Construction is certainly not withstanding, but be able to be responsive to not only the initial inquiries or questions from employees, from customers, from business partners, from investors.
but also be ready for those follow-up questions, those gotcha questions, those questions that come with an inherent bias. It might even be implied or, or subconscious for the person asking about it, but usually in an adverse situation, audiences will think that somebody purposely or negligently screwed something up. And so being able to address those in a way that responds with empathy and action doesn't dodge the question per se.
but also doesn't get the leaders all rattled because somebody is really calling their personal integrity and personal reputation into question just as much as the business in those circumstances. So that's the kind of training I typically do in the context of media relations. And I love it because I love helping organizations when they're not in a crisis, prepare for one and never need to hire me again. People think, well, that's kind of weird. You're in the business to help people in times of crisis. I'm really in the business of helping people.
be able to preserve operations in good times and bad. And so if I can do that, if I do 20 of those, and that means I lose five clients in a crisis situation. I'm a happy guy. I really am. Some people ask me, I a thrill seeker because of the type of thing I work in where I get called in when the shit hits the fan. go, no, no. I love helping organizations communicate the way through bad situations. But if I can prevent that, that would make my day. So that's the kind of training I typically do.
But yeah, I love the constable learning for me. And I certainly hope that I can impart that. But like you, I imagine for every client that you take on, there's probably two or three who go not today or not now. And I get it. Cause they've got four or five other priorities that they're working on. They're trying to work on it at a pretty hectic pace. They're owners and operators of the business. So their, their time is very valuable. And we can talk all day about the value of it from a long-term, from our prevention standpoint, but also from.
increased productivity and revenue potentials and profitability. But it's hard for a lot of organizations to sort of see that when they're so close to the day to day activities, they have to get done in order just to keep things afloat.
Dee Davis (30:44)
Well, and in construction, it's particularly tough because our revenue is directly based on work productivity in the field, know, projects and work productivity in the field. And it's difficult to get people to realize that softer things like prevention and training and education, you'll end up maximizing what you can perform out in the field and mitigating so many more risks.
But how do you put a number to that? Cause those things haven't happened yet. And it's difficult sometimes to realize that what you're really doing is you're investing in making your people and your processes better so that when it does hit the fan, you're prepared and you handle it and you can ride that out and it's all good.
Dave Oates (31:35)
Good organizations do that really well, right? But not so good organizations could be really good by taking that preventative measure, right? By taking that proactive strategic matter. The adage is still true, right? That means working on the business as much as you're working in the business. But I get it. It's hard for a lot of entities to do that. And so they'll call me when they call me.
Dee Davis (31:57)
I think
to wrap it up, the overall message is that it's not a matter of if you're going to need some kind of help. It's a matter of when. The best time is now before you are in crisis to seek help and training and resources to prevent the crisis to begin with or to know how to deal with that crisis when it does occur. There's training that PR security services can provide you and your staff.
to help prepare you for the eventuality that something is going to run amok and you're going to have to know how to grab those reins and guide that horse into the appropriate barn stall so that it's not running wild out there catching fire and getting on the news. We don't want to see that. How can people best reach out to you, Dave?
Dave Oates (32:48)
Thank you, I appreciate that. You know, they can Google me, Dave Oates, Crisis PR. My LinkedIn profile pops up, my website pops up, my social media accounts on Instagram and Facebook will pop up. Any of those ways are perfect ways to reach me. My website though has a app where you can book a 15 minute consultation with me. Absolutely no charge, no obligation. Whether you're dealing with a matter now or you just wanted to brainstorm an idea about.
creating some sort of prevention initiative for that one there. Entrepreneur to entrepreneur, always happy to help out those entities. And I do those as often as I can. So those are the best way to reach me. In the same way I talk about organizations, protecting their brand online. I get most of my business through referrals, through other trusted advisors who bring me into a client area there, but I've got a pretty robust presence. You just Google Dave Oates Crisis PR and my contact information pops up.
Dee Davis (33:44)
Okay, and we'll include some of that information in our show notes as well. Dave, any closing comments for our listeners?
Dave Oates (33:50)
I'm so grateful for the time and thank you for dealing with some of the technical issues that we've had, but it's been a great conversation and I so appreciate this platform to allow and empower organizations, construction entities and the owners and the executives to be able to just take a breath and think about ways in order to improve their business beyond the day-to-day activities they're currently undertaking. That's a real service. So thanks for the time, Dee.
Dee Davis (34:18)
Thank you so much for being a guest on the show. Thanks everybody. We'll talk to you next time.
us on YouTube at YellowstoneProfessionalEd.co. Don't forget to like, share, and follow us. Apple, Spotify, everywhere you listen to your podcasts. You can email us with questions, comments, and suggestions at heyd at managementunderconstruction.com. That's H-E-Y-D-E-E to get me or Brad at managementunderconstruction.com.
