Dee Davis (00:36)
Good morning and welcome to the Management Under Construction podcast. I'm your host, Dee Davis, and today we are joined by Cynthia Harvey Brown. Cynthia is absolutely an expert in indoor air quality and textiles, and we are going to learn so much today. Thank you so much for joining us, Cynthia, and please tell us a little bit about yourself.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (00:59)
Well, thank you for having me, Dee. I'm really glad that we were able to connect and come together for this. just a little bit about my background. I've had over twenty-five years of experience in the fashion and the textile industries, sourcing fabric, working with fabric, and design education has been another big part of my journey in academia and a fashion college. But I didn't leave fashion.
Fashion led me here to wellness and to look at materials and how we work with materials in our professional life. But the thing that a lot of people may not realize is that we bring those home with us. They're in our homes as well. So they follow us wherever we go in the clothing that we wear, in the upholstery that we sit on, the mattress that we sleep on.
all of the things that are part of our lives involve some types of material. And when you think about even a car, when we sit in a car, there's fabrics and materials and finishes in there that affects our air quality wherever we go.
Dee Davis (02:13)
That's right. And I think this is something that people don't think about very much. And the reason that we're here on Management Under Construction talking about this is we're gonna leave our hard hat at the door just a little bit today. And we're gonna talk about the place where we spend most of our time, which is inside. So whether you're inside your home or you're inside your workplace, it doesn't matter, or or you're building a building and you're inside that building.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (02:31)
Yes.
Dee Davis (02:40)
There are all kinds of things that contribute to the indoor air quality, and that is why ASHRAE the American Society for Heating and Refrigeration Engineers, has standards about indoor air quality for buildings. It impacts our long-term health for men and women alike. This isn't something that's unique to men or women, it's all of us. So we're going to use tons of knowledge that Cynthia has gained over the last few decades.
In working in the textiles industry. And I'm just so excited that you're here. And this is a little bit different, like We're not talking about swinging hammers here, we're talking about choices that we make in the in the environments that we live in. we are going to explore the material emissions and indoor exposure of how everyday textile choices affect our air quality and links to reproductive and hormonal health.
Again, for both men and women. And more importantly, what practical swaps can we do and what buying decisions can we make that are going to help us as building designers or just consumers in their personal lives, in their home, in their workplace, even. So these indoor toxins play a massive part in our overall health and reproductive systems. So, Cynthia, if you could tell us a little bit about your past.
in the textiles and fashion to indoor environmental health, how did you end up focusing on what people sit on, sleep on, and wear?
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (04:11)
Well my own personal journey into wellness really started because I noticed it was probably in the year two thousand, I started having a lot of skin irritations. I was working in the garment industry and then I noticed that my son was having serious bouts with asthma. And it was at that point that I realized I needed to look closely at
what was surrounding us all day. And it was a process of elimination for sure. But I realized that wellness isn't just about food or exercise. It does have a lot to do with what we're interacting with. And I feel like as a professional, I knew what I was working with, but I realized that that didn't stay in the factories. It didn't stay in the showrooms.
All of that material, I even opened up a small studio in my home to do custom work for clients. And I realized there were certain fabrics that affected me and my son differently. And so the materials I work with professionally didn't stay there. They didn't stay in the workplace. They did follow me home. And wellness is not just about what you put in your body, it's what you surround your body with, all of us every single day.
And since we spend so much time, like you said, Dee inside, I think that that was a logical place for me to start looking. yeah, we're interacting every day with materials that I think deserves a closer look.
Dee Davis (05:45)
Yeah, I think there is a this idea that we talk you know we talk about all the pollution outdoors and you know well if you live near a freeway and there's all this different pollution and car pollution and air pollution and people think well the place I need to be is indoors because it's safer in there it's cleaner in there because I have an AC unit and filters and stuff. Well, guess what? That's not necessarily the case. you have a lot of
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (06:02)
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Dee Davis (06:12)
Pollutants inside your home that are constantly off-gassing and can potentially be polluting your environment indoors as well. And you mentioned you and your son had that issue with clothing. I will never forget the first time I ever really thought about textiles in the house, we had gotten new carpet in one room of our house.
My daughter and I were sitting on the floor watching TV. I don't know, the day it was installed, the day after it was installed. Both of us got rashes on our legs from the carpet.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (06:46)
Mm. Yep. It ha
yeah. And it's not unusual for that to happen. the good thing is that you recognize that there was a connection there. the Environmental Protection Agency has revealed that indoor air quality can be ten times worse than the air outdoors. And so we can't just think of pollution as something out there because what we're sitting on, what we're
brushing up against the mattresses that we sleep on. they all have chemical finishes of and different foams that really require us to ask questions about what's in these different types of products. And when you talk about off gassing Dee now that I'm sure that your engineers and your listeners know what that is.
But a lot of times people just think that off gassing is something normal. For ex for example, when you buy a brand new car, everybody's excited about getting a new car, and that smell that you get when you're smelling the a new car inside, it's off gassing. It's the materials and the toxins and compounds, the adhesives, all of the things that was used to create that.
interior of that car is what you're smelling. And that that's kind of a easy example of what off gassing is. You don't see it, but your nose is smelling it and your body is processing it.
Dee Davis (08:15)
Yeah, absolutely. That smell off-gassing is the release of chemicals. That's what that is, into the air around you. And so that new car smell, and even though some people like that smell, they think, and I think it's the idea of having something new that people really like. especially something nice like a car. but yes, breathe deeply, you're smelling chemicals. That's exactly what that is.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (08:19)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
You're smelling chemicals, paints, adhesives, you're smelling the synthetic fabric, the carpets in the car as well, right? And most of this is finished with some kind of stain-resistant treatment. So you've got all of these things going on, and it's usually not one exposure, it's the cumulative effect of repeated exposure over time.
So you're getting it in the car, you're getting it in close enclosed spaces in your workplace, as well as your home.
Dee Davis (09:07)
Absolutely. So we've made it clear indoor air quality matters. let's talk some more about the materials that we bring into our homes and our workplaces. So we talked about carpets and upholstery and mattresses and foams and finishes. Help us understand how long do these chemical releases last and what are they really doing to our bodies?
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (09:31)
Well, they l they last a lot longer than most people think. they last anywhere from a week to a month or even longer, depending on whether or not the environment that they're in is closed up. If there's ventilation or enough ventilation, you have to look at humidity and other factors to determine how long they may remain in the air. And the thing is, just because you don't see them doesn't mean they're not
there and it's really important to understand that our bodies were not made to absorb all of these artificial chemical exposures ongoing. And so yes our hormonal and our reproductive health is definitely affected by these chemicals that are being released into the air. And our hormones think of our hormones as our body's communication system.
they affect everything from our sleep to our energy to our mood, our reproductive processes, they affect stress responses as well. So knowing that reducing these chemicals can actually create a well environment, a wellness around your body and your and your ability to think straight because they affect our mood.
For your ability to sleep well because they affect our sleep. And so, and it's not about fear either. It's really not about fear, nor is it about perfection. It's really about becoming aware and asking more informed questions as consumers. You mentioned earlier we all have the ability to question things that we're spending our money on and bringing into our homes.
Dee Davis (11:16)
Yeah, absolutely. And of course, we don't have control over everything, like in a workplace. Sometimes that kind of stuff is not so much in your control, but you can certainly inform and maybe even have input. So when we talk about these chemicals, we're talking about VOCs, which stands for volatile organic compounds. And other things like flame retardants or preservatives or PFAS, formaldehyde, those are really common chemicals that are found.
in all kinds of textiles, which ones should listeners be the most aware of and cautious about?
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (11:52)
All of them because those chemicals, believe it or not, are but it really does depend on I find a person's individual lifestyle. because for instance, this is something that I I talk about on on my podcast and with women in general, is that formaldehyde is something that's released in candles. If you're buying certain candles, you can also find
Dee Davis (11:54)
Yeah.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (12:19)
PFAS as you mentioned, which are also called forever chemicals, in polyester yoga pants. So a lot of women they live in yoga pants even when they're not in the gym, right? And so those are sensitive areas of our body that we really need to be mindful of because these chemicals are put in more things than people realize. They're also according to
a California law, flame retardants were mandatory to be used in children's or infants' sleepwear and pajamas. And you know, that's another conversation, but it's an important one to have because after so much controversy around that, and the reason supposedly they use for having to do that
To protect the children, it didn't add up. And there was enough complaints and enough questions asked, and enough consumers pressuring those that insisted that they use these flame retardants till now you can find options. And that's what really this is all about. Whatever it is that you are not sure about, or you're second guessing when you look around your home, maybe after this, episode.
Take a look and look at what's either in the ingredient or what's on the label. Read the label. That'll tell you a lot. And then that will raise questions for you and you can make more informed decisions.
Dee Davis (13:46)
Yeah, you bring up the children's flame retardant pajamas. And I remember when my kids were little, I never knew that that was even a thing. And I remember shopping for pajamas for my kids when they were little. And I thought, why, why are some of these like very specifically pajamas? That thing over there kind of looks like pajamas, or why couldn't it be pajamas? well, it's not safe because it's not flame retardant. And I'm thinking, wow, what are the odds that a child is gonna be in a fire and retardant is not
preventative. So we're trying to guard against the one thousandth of one percent of a thing and meanwhile exposing our children, skin is our biggest organ on our body and constantly everything it comes in contact with is exposing it to those chemicals. You know, whenever kids are in their jammies and when kids are little they love to be in their jammies all the time. So I
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (14:27)
Right.
Yes, yes.
They do.
Dee Davis (14:40)
I remember finding that very alarming when my kids were little and and putting them in clothes that were not necessarily pajamas because I thought that was really weird and I didn't know nearly as much back then as I do now.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (14:52)
Well,
things have changed. People ha parents have been complaining for years and now you can find they call it snug fit. So you can find options that are safer now. And things don't change overnight. We know that. whether you're I imagine in the industry that you're in, it's the same for any industry. It takes time sometimes for the government to make
changes. Sometimes you just have to be wise about the little small intentional changes that you can make because we can't control everything. But I feel like in our homes we really do need to be mindful about all the things that affect our health and well being.
Dee Davis (15:35)
Well, and one of the ways this translates to the job site is those synthetic shirts that are just everywhere now. So job site shirts are a really big deal. I'm on a big job right now, they're constantly giving away shirts for different milestones of the project and different things, and it's great, but you know, I went to go pick up my shirt the other day and I'll never wear it because it is synthetic.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (15:41)
Mm.
⁓
Dee Davis (15:59)
It's moisture wicking, and I'm using air quotes for those of you who are only listening. and what that means is any moisture wicking materials or synthetic materials that are designed to absorb and get rid of the the sweat, which here I'm in Indiana working right now. It's very hot, it's very humid, and so that is something that sounds desirable, but the reality is is when you sweat, your pores open up and absorb those synthetic materials.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (16:02)
Yeah.
Dee Davis (16:27)
and inks and everything that is going on there. So I'm wearing 100% cotton and to shirts. To make it worse, we have to wear long sleeves all day on the job, no matter what the temperature is. So you're even hotter. synthetic materials are less breathable. So you know
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (16:32)
That's true.
Yeah
Mm.
Exactly. So
it doesn't a lot of times when you think about things and you kind of go through the logical conclusion and you realize cotton breathes. And when you're sweating, you want that circulation. You want the air to flow. and the reverse is also true. When you're wearing synthetic fabrics, those
mostly polyester and sometimes they will use other types of synthetic materials but mostly it's polyester that's used in garments that is a synthetic fabric it's a micro plastic it's a it's a forever chemical and so when you're sweating your pores like you said they open up and if the air doesn't flow what's released are those chemicals from the fabric
And you're susceptible to absorbing them into your skin because there's no place else for them to go. So for me, I decided some years ago that I was seeing what was happening in the garment industry, and I decided that I only wanted to create sustainable fashion and sustainable clothing, which meant I was only going to be using natural materials, cottons, 100% cottons, organic cottons if I could afford
To get them and sell them at a fair price. Things have come down. The prices have come down because more and more designers, yes, have demanded that wholesalers, garment wholesalers, and fabric wholesalers come up with fabrics that are safer and that are less expensive. And they have come down in terms of price. You can find silks, linens, and cottons at a much more affordable price, then you could.
ten, twenty years ago.
Dee Davis (18:31)
Well, that's great news because I'm always looking for organic materials for clothing. And I have plenty of clothing in my closet and in my drawers right this very moment that are not what I want to be wearing. Because I live in the yoga pants when I'm not working, just like so many people do, or whatever comfortable clothing that you live in, the cheaper it is, the more likely it is to be synthetic.
I know it's becoming more available. I was able to find some shirts at a very reasonable price that were a hundred percent cotton recently, and I was pretty excited because that was not the case just a few years ago.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (18:59)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yes, it's so true. Prices come down, consumers complain it's about supply and demand. And so even now you can find yoga or exercise pants in bamboo or Moldell cotton and it's much it's just nicer. It feels nicer on your skin actually, and it's it's a a nicer fabric to wear opposed to the polyester. So
Things are becoming available more and more because people are demanding it. There's organizations that actually are watch dogs regarding organic fabrics. And I think that you're aware of, OEKO-TEX and there's other organizations. There's Green Guard Goal, I know that's another one. and as well as GOTS And so these are all organizations that certify
textiles and fabrics and they check for emissions because you mentioned earlier the volatile organic compounds, you want them low, I'm painting my bedroom, my kitchen, my bathroom, the living room right now. Well it's being painted. And I insisted that we use low VOC paints. They are available.
Dee Davis (20:19)
They are. And depending on where you are in the world or even in the United States, it varies from state to state. So I work all over the United States. I get to see all kinds of things. And some states that are, I would say, more conscientious about this kind of thing, like maybe New York and California, Oregon, Washington, states like that, they're going to require to build in their state that you must use low VOC.
compounds because they have their own local codes and things like that for building materials. Other than that, it's up to the individual or maybe if they're going to, do a LEED building, then maybe it's required. But otherwise, it's just kind of up to whatever's locally available. And I can tell you that I just moved into this apartment because I had to relocate for work and I moved into this apartment. And you know what do they do every time somebody new moves in? They paint.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (21:09)
The paint.
Dee Davis (21:11)
Right? Clean the carpets, maybe paint. And this place was a VOC nightmare when I did my walkthrough. So the first thing I did is when I took occupancy was I opened up all the windows and I turned the AC fan on. Now, not the AC itself, but just the fan, and I let it run for several days. To air out, we have something like that in the building community called a building flush.
And what that does is it's providing a high rate of ventilation, changing out those air changes to help get rid of those VOCs. Night and day difference in the first 24 hours in this apartment. And I've done it one other time since because it I've I went left for a week, came back, and I could smell it. And I was like, Nope, opened up the house, did it again. whether it's the carpet, it's
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (21:37)
Okay.
Dee Davis (22:02)
furniture, it's the paint, it's all the things, and I'm gonna gamble in this state it's probably not low VOC paint that was used. we have these choices and sometimes the choices are more expensive. If you live in a state that doesn't have laws like that, then you may have an option for low VOC paint that's a little bit more expensive, but it's your health. So may if you can afford it, check it out.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (22:25)
It is.
Absolutely. You mentioned airing out or you know, creating a a way to clear the air. And I always suggest when people buy a brand new car, they do the same thing. If they have a garage, then park the car in the garage, leave the windows open for a couple of weeks and so that it can air out. and you know, little things like plug in air fresheners, those are like the worst. So
If you're in your brand new car and you're got your plugins, you're just you emissions are just everywhere. I was talking to a client of mine and she was telling me that she didn't realize that when she's in a shower washing her hair, she says, you know, she's got the kids, she's gotta hurry up and get out of the shower. So she sprays the cleaning product while she's in the shower, you know, and you know, sh she's like I'm
inhaling all of this in the steam and you know so we're talking about one item at a time sometimes people get overwhelmed when they think about all of the things that may need to be looked at and possibly changed but I say let's start with where you are where are you spending most of your time do you spend most of your time in the kitchen? Well let's talk about those things in there that we can change and improve.
if you have a child or if you're a mom expecting a child, let's definitely talk about setting up that nursery right because you know, a baby's organs are just and women that are pregnant, they're more vulnerable. And obviously that's when things really matter. so I always say let's start with what you are interacting with the most in your home, because people's lives are so different.
Dee Davis (24:15)
Yeah, absolutely. And any change, regardless of what kind of change it is, nobody should ever feel like they have to do everything all at once. it and you know, just like I know I need to to I listened to your episode on new yoga pants. ⁓ that was the first one of your episodes that I listened to, and I was cracking up because I'm thinking, my gosh, I'm thinking about my inventory of yoga pants. because I'm the worst about that. I just live in those things.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (24:23)
Exactly.
Okay.
Dee Davis (24:42)
And ca you know, they're comfortable. And I was thinking, man, I have got to get rid of the majority, if not all, of my yoga pants. And I need to start swapping them out. So I've been looking, but I haven't started the swap out yet because I'm like, okay, what can I what else can I do? Well, I can stop wearing yoga pants so much. Maybe I wear something else instead, like these pants that I'm wearing right now, these are 100% cotton. Okay, I'll I'll go with that.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (25:01)
True.
Dee Davis (25:08)
and start wearing those more and the yoga pants not as much. so it's expensive to change things out and it doesn't mean you have to throw them in the trash. ⁓ whether it is your couch that you're changing out in your house, it's the clothing, your work clothing, your personal off time clothing, whatever it is that you're doing, whatever textiles you're opting to get rid of, give them away.
Donate them. You don't have to throw it in the trash. So you don't have this guilt of, this is perfectly good. There's nothing wrong with it, except that you don't want to choose to wear it anymore. Well, you don't have to put it in the trash either. And you don't have to do it all at once.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (25:44)
You can
exactly that's the key is to, do small things, make small intentional changes the thing too is that a lot of the synthetic materials, they are not made to last. They're usually in the fast fashion category and so they're manufactured in a way so that you do repeat you buy them over and over.
When you buy something of quality, if you buy a couple of pair of bamboo yoga pants, they're gonna last you forever, compared to the yoga pants that are made out of polyester, nylon or acrylic. So you're only benefiting yourself in so many ways by buying something that's a little nicer quality. And you can find these types of things on sale now because they're readily available.
Dee Davis (26:33)
Yeah, And we speak with our dollars by how we purchase for sure. That's always true in our kind of a supply and demand economy. So you brought up fast fashion, and of course that applies to clothing, but there's other kinds of I'm just gonna use the word cheap. they're cheap, right? can you get a, know, hundred and fifty dollar couch? Sure. Can you also get an eight hundred dollar couch? Sure.
there's lots of things out there that are kind of fast and dirty or kind of cheap. Those are more likely to involve the inexpensive high chemical quantity materials because chemicals are cheaper than real things, right?
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (27:15)
Right. And when you think about it and it's an intentional lifestyle. it doesn't happen overnight. But if you're in the market for a new couch or a new dining room table, I always suggest to look at second hand. Sometimes older furniture is solid wood. It's already been off gassed, so you don't have to worry about it. If you can find a sofa that you like that
is in good condition but it's secondhand, it's already been off gassed. So you don't have that to worry about. and I always say when you're shopping, don't be afraid to ask questions. Ask the retailer, ask the manufacturer if you have to reach out to them, what is your product made out of? What type of foam is in this whatever it is.
If you're in the market for a mattress, usually they last for 10 years. Obviously, if you just bought a mattress, you're not gonna want to throw it out. But if you're in the market or if you're thinking about getting a new mattress, this is when you wanna make those swaps. You wanna switch things out just in a normal way of living. You don't want to throw everything out in your home overnight. You can't do this overnight. It's a process and we're all on a wellness journey, whether we realize it or not.
And so this is just incorporating health conscious ways of thinking and being and so that you're not stacking and stacking and layering toxins. You're actually reducing the layers gradually.
Dee Davis (28:50)
There's so many dimensions to this stuff and it can be overwhelming. and in the construction industry, we're exposed to so many more things at work than we're exposed to at home. They're different things. all kinds of adhesive materials and paints and epoxies and things like that that we are not only we're breathing in as it's applied, we're breathing in in that off-gassing stage.
during construction too. So I want to talk a little bit more about linking environmental chemicals to hormone disruption and how indoor chemicals influence reproductive health and hormones and why this is so increasingly important for men.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (29:34)
Well interesting the conversation around men. but we all have hormones. We all have hormones and hormones affect us all. As I mentioned earlier, it affects our sleep, our reproductive organs. It there is more and more research that's coming out now specifically about men and how certain hormones are being affected by chemicals, compounds and exposure.
That is actually lowering sperm count. And I think that is getting the attention that it deserves, it needs, because men will hear hormones and they'll think about, that's women or children, but it's men too that are being affected. And these studies that are increasingly pointing to the fact that men need to also be mindful
And take control. This is about ownership and not panicking, but it's about taking control of your own health in a way that's beneficial to you and your family. it's not about fear. It's about being aware and just making more informed decisions around what's important because this is not a women's issue only.
Dee Davis (30:48)
Yeah, we all have the same hormones, by the way, men, in case you didn't know that. men and women have the same hormones, they have just different levels of the same hormones. so it's definitely not just a women's issue, but it's declining sperm counts, it's endocrine disruption, and we're starting to see more and more men with fertility issues and the inability to have children.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (30:55)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Dee Davis (31:12)
And that's a real problem or the inability to have healthy children because I mean we're just gonna say it guys. I mean you might not want to hear it, but your sperm being healthy equates to healthy children. if your sperm is not healthy, then you might not have healthy children. And there's more and more cases of young, very young children getting all kinds of crazy cancers and stuff like that. This stuff starts at conception.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (31:38)
It does. And that it's important for the mom to also consider this before she even conceives, but most definitely before and and during, as well as what these endocrine disrupting chemicals are doing to men's bodies and their testosterone and their hormones and all of those things that matter to them. so that we don't see, as you said, children that
Dee Davis (31:39)
With with
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (32:05)
have this long extended issue with certain health problems like my son did with asthma. Had I known, the carpet wouldn't have been there. We would have had a wool rug instead. So it's important that not only the men think about how it's affecting them, but how it's affecting their wives or their children as well.
Dee Davis (32:28)
Well, and I see too many women only thinking about these things when they've decided it's time to conceive. I want to get pregnant now. So now I'm gonna start watching my diet. Now I'm gonna start getting plastics out of my life. Now I'm gonna start, looking at my environment. And if possible, the sooner the better. And I and I think the younger generation is doing a better job of this than our generation did or the generation before us.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (32:46)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Dee Davis (32:54)
The generation before us actually wasn't exposed to nearly as much of this stuff as we were. Our generation has been the exposed generation, and I think that's why we're seeing higher instances of cancer. We're seeing higher instances in men and women. Breast cancer rates are going up for men. A crazy amount of men are getting breast cancer and prostate cancer now.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (33:11)
Yes, yes.
Dee Davis (33:16)
It it's just crazy. And, women I think we're always more vulnerable because we're the ones that reproduce. So everything our bodies have a tendency to be a little more sensitive to all these things anyway, but it is not just a woman's issue.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (33:29)
No, not at all.
Dee Davis (33:31)
okay. so what other key risks for the men that are listening that they need to know about? and are there some reversibility or mitigation strategies that they can use?
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (33:43)
Well, I I go back to the the fact that whatever they can do, whether at work or at home, to reduce their toxic load, to reduce their exposure to certain chemicals and toxins is going to benefit them. Sometimes people don't know. If they don't know, they don't know. And so I think
Really asking questions of whatever it is that you are purchasing and bringing around you and bringing around your family is going to be really super important. Like the example you gave, even in the workplace. if it's all possible, even if your employer doesn't, provide you with a hundred percent cotton uniform or shirt, then maybe you have to make
that investment in your own health and well being so that you can protect your own. And I think it's really important that men realize this is just as important for them as it is for anyone else in the house or in the workplace. So this is about all of us making the effort to live healthier lives.
Dee Davis (34:54)
If you like what you're hearing so far, don't forget to boop the like button and share this episode with a friend. Now we're going to move on to some practical decisions what to buy and what to avoid. When we're talking about designing a building and we're choosing finishes, carpet, flooring, paint, adhesives, and even sound attenuation for a building, this stuff all off gasses. So we have to choose the finishes carefully with
Thinking about all these different things, just like we do with our homes. So, can you walk us through a shopping guide for mattresses, couches, rugs, clothes, ⁓ any of those kinds of things? I know you mentioned a couple of organizations, and if you could, I use some abbreviations earlier. Can you go a little deeper and explain that a little bit more for us? What to watch out for and what to swap for?
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (35:33)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Yes, absolutely. I I think as shoppers, I don't like to use the word consumers, but as as those that have the power to go out and purchase things, I think one of the things to always consider is to ask what is it made out of? You want to look for transparency with companies that will share what's in their product. If you cannot
find or you don't understand an ingredients in a company's product and or materials are not being fully disclosed, then that's something that you should question. They're giving information, but they're not giving the information that you need. So that should be a red flag. And do look for certifications. As I mentioned earlier, look for certifications like OEKO-TEX
Because they test textiles. And when I say textiles, we're talking about not just clothing. We're talking about curtains, rugs, carpets. If you have the ability to choose a fabric or a textile that actually has been tested and it's certified through an organization that puts their stamp of approval on it, like GOTS, which is a global,
organization of textiles that is one that tests the materials you gotta be careful though because I was just on Amazon and I was looking for a new shower curtains and some of them will use the seal so just ask questions. You can never go wrong. And if you dig deeper and you have to keep digging and you don't
See or find the answer, that's your answer right there. read the labels. I think that's the most important and ask questions and look for natural materials. like I said earlier, you want to look for cottons, wool, silks, linen. And just remember if nobody is asking questions, then manufacturer may not
think that it's important enough for them. And so you want to work with companies and shop with companies that you trust.
Dee Davis (37:58)
And just like with any relationship, trust is huge. I just bought some rechargeable flashlights for work and I I use them at work and all the ones that I've bought in the past have all been battery operated and I can't stand things that aren't rechargeable. And I'm like, I am not buying another battery operated flashlight. I'm gonna find a rechargeable one, I don't care how long it takes me. And
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (38:05)
Mm-hmm.
Dee Davis (38:21)
You know, I did. I probably spent forty-five minutes researching different brands that I found. And does it have this feature? Does it have that feature? How long does the battery last? Does it have good reviews? And it takes effort to find things that matter. but this is something that I'm gonna use often and for many years. And I don't wanna buy a cheap piece of junk that's gonna break in the first six months and I'm gonna have to turn around and buy it again.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (38:26)
Mm-hmm.
Uh-huh.
It does.
Yeah.
⁓
Right.
That's smart because every purchase is an opportunity to make a more informed decision. it's our power, it's our dollars. And so maybe we do have to do a little research, or you know, seek out someone that can help us, but it's better in the long run because that flashlight's gonna last you longer and you're not gonna have to replace batteries over and over and
Batteries is another whole conversation,
Dee Davis (39:12)
Well, and that kind of leads us into trade-offs. When we're talking about cost, durability, sustainability, when you're on a tight budget.
How do people weigh those trade-offs when money is tight? And I think for a lot of people that's the argument is like, well, I can't afford to buy the $60 shirt. I can only afford to buy the $20 shirt How do they weigh those options when money's tight?
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (39:37)
Well, that's a good question. fortunately, the prices have come down on a lot of products that used to be premium products if it was a hundred percent cotton. and as you mentioned earlier, you can find what you need, but you have to spend a little time. You researching and looking for
Finding something on sale when you can, because there's so much in the marketplace now and there's such a demand for safer products that the prices have come down. So it's not as expensive as it used to be. You just have to put a little time and effort in there to find what you're looking for. But just know that an investment, even if it's a small investment in a slightly more expensive product.
It's going to last you longer. We call it cost per wear in the garment industry. How much are you gonna benefit from buying something that's a little better quality compared to something that's cheap, as we said earlier, that's not going to last. And look how much time you're spending shopping, going back and forth looking for, buying cheaper things.
where you can save your time, your effort and your money by finding something that is reasonably priced but it's not going to interfere with your ability to want to live a healthier lifestyle.
Dee Davis (41:03)
Yeah, it's tough choices sometimes. And we have the same conversation on the sustainability side of of the world, regardless of what kind of a product you're talking about, the cheap thing isn't always the best choice because you're going to be buying it over and over again and we wanna reduce that waste life cycle with really any product. so yeah, and your time is I always say is 100% your most valuable thing because
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (41:05)
Yeah.
Dee Davis (41:28)
It's gonna pass with or without you. And once it's gone, you're never getting that five minutes back. I'm never getting that 40 minutes back that I spent researching those flashlights, but it was worth the investment. okay, our home choices are on one side with everyday products, and workplace exposures are another. I want to talk about fragrance products. You mentioned it before.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (41:38)
That's right.
Dee Davis (41:54)
Things that are smelly, I call them smelly products. I'm not a big smelly products girl. I never really have been. I've never been big into like smelly air fresheners in my house or smelly candles but some people are really into that. They really, really like this stuff. The more smelly it is, ⁓ and of course the cheaper it is. there's
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (42:07)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Dee Davis (42:14)
More likely you're gonna have hormone disruptors and all these things in it. And it even goes all the way down to colognes and perfumes. So fragranced products and cleaners are everywhere. I just cringe every time I see that Gain commercial where they're sniffing the laundry. so how do personal care and scented products shape our indoor and chemical load?
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (42:22)
Yes.
Mm.
Ha ha.
Dee Davis (42:41)
And what kind of swaps are practical without going crazy?
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (42:45)
Well, fragrance is definitely one of those words that can be misleading. you will find that word listed on so many products, from detergents to air fresheners to garbage bags. fragrance is everywhere and it's an unregulated word, which means that.
Most likely it's an artificial substance. It's an artificial fragrance. And so it's what I avoid at all costs. Fragrances are proprietary, proprietary, so which means that companies don't have to tell you what what that fragrance is or how it was made or what's in it. so I stay away from fragrances altogether. I use
Organic essential oils and women are notorious for fragrant lotions, fragrance this, fragrance that. Men are not as bad, although they are really promoting fragrances in men's products as well. So I would say that just because it smells good doesn't mean it's good for you. Because you are inhaling these unknown fragrances.
fragrances and they don't go away they're just in everything and I think one of the things that you can do is for instance air fresheners the those are one of the worst things that you can spray in your home or plug into your wall or car a safer option would definitely be to use an oil diffuser
But you have to also think about the sensitivity of pets, children, and your own body, and kind of test things out. I love candles, but I only use beeswax candles because they're the safest that are available on the market. And you know, open the windows, make sure that you have air flowing through your house. Maybe you won't need as many, aerosol air fresheners and
Why do they put optimal brightness in laundry detergent and all the fragrance there? I don't know, but I see those commercials too. And sometimes the spokesperson is a dermatologist who's pitching the product. No, you don't need laundry detergents are one of the worst with added fragrances. So I think you you have to consider the frequency of use.
Are you burning candles all the time? Well then you might want to consider oil diffuser. it doesn't hurt to try a safer laundry detergent because you're putting a fragrance in clothes that then you're wearing or sleeping on all night. So you're just layering these unnatural compounds, these synthetic chemicals. And so I say again, you start wherever you are, but
The bedroom is probably one of the first places I recommend because we spend a third of our time in our bedroom. We're sleeping on sheets and our clothes and a lot of our furnishings, the rugs are there. So I say to really consider the products that you can swap out, whether it's a hundred percent organic cotton, bedding.
it's just so important that you are mindful about what you're around most of the time, what you're sleeping on, sitting on most of the time. And just start there.
Dee Davis (46:15)
Yeah, an unscented is often an option. I get unscented whatever as often as I can. if there's an option of all these fragrances and then an unscented, I get unscented. I've stopped using any kind of fragrances in my house. And it's not that I don't think those things smell good, I do. but you know what else smells good? Flowers.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (46:36)
Exactly. fresh
flowers are the best and fragrances they just it's become so normal that most of us never think twice about it. you really don't need fragrances in all your products. You can definitely swap out for essential oils if you want.
Dee Davis (46:55)
Yeah, if you really need something scented, that's a better option. I just recently found and bought, because again, I don't do the candles or any other kind of thing in the house, and I mostly stopped because I have my oldest daughter is very sensitive to the smells. They make her sick and give her headaches. And so we had to stop completely. And I was really bummed about it for a while because I do like certain scented candles and things. So I bought
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (46:56)
Yeah. Yeah.
⁓
Dee Davis (47:22)
They're just, it's just rose petals. Somebody dried a whole bunch of rose petals and put them in a little, sachet thing and was selling them. And I'm like, yeah. perfect. So I bought two of those. One's in my living room, one's in my bathroom. some people don't like the scent of roses. I love the scent of roses. So now every time I walk into the room, it smells like fresh roses and there's no chemicals, there's no preservatives. It's fantastic.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (47:25)
⁓ Yeah.
The potpourri.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And what's great about that, Dee, is that everybody has a sensitivity to certain scents. They have their favorite scents, right? So mine is jasmine, but you can choose whatever flowers you like.
Dee Davis (48:00)
I love jasmine too.
And anything with that smells like orange blossoms, that's probably my number one favorite one. And yeah, nothing smells like real orange blossoms than real orange blossoms, unfortunately. let's talk about certain verbiage. So much like in the sustainability world.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (48:04)
⁓ Uh-huh.
There's options. Yes.
Dee Davis (48:22)
We call it greenwashing in the sustainability world. And we have to be very careful about that in construction because we're buying things and we're touting that our buildings that we build and design are green. But we have to be very careful about our choice of products. There are words, as you mentioned, some words don't have any legal meaning. There's no legal definition to certain words, and they're used in marketing all the time.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (48:24)
Mm. Right.
Dee Davis (48:49)
So one of the ones that I wanted to talk about that has no legal definition, we often see it in textiles, we see it in fragrances, we see it in food, we see it in absolutely everything is either natural or all natural. That is a term that has absolutely no legal meaning. Anybody can put it on anything they want, and if you sued them, you would lose.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (49:06)
Hmm.
Dee Davis (49:15)
Because it has no legal definition at this point in time. so we have to be very careful when we're dealing with that. Now, let me ask, and I don't know if you know the answer to this question, when it comes to essential oils, I know there's definitely different purities and grades of essential oils. Are there essential oils out there? I guess does that have a legal definition?
Is is anything labeled essential oil okay or not?
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (49:44)
yes, you can and I do subscribe to organic. They have the seal on it, the organic essential oils. It's the same as produce that has a a different seal when it's organic. And so we have to trust something. And for me, if it says organic, if it's stamped organic, I generally I will do the research though.
Because one thing about putting natural or eco-friendly or all of those marketing terms, I call them, on the front label is to sell you the product. That's why I say you've got to turn that product around and read the label, read the back label, read the list of ingredients. And if there's ingredients on there that you can't pronounce
Or if it's a laundry list of ingredients, you have permission to put that back on the shelf.
Dee Davis (50:38)
It's hard to know. There's so much out there. One of the things that I always thought was interesting is there's a particular well, and I think I've seen it more than once now, but there used to be this particular brand of soda that said all natural on it. And I would giggle, but there's nothing natural about soda. Not one thing is natural about soda. And I every time I would see that, I would just think.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (50:53)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Dee Davis (51:04)
Really? Like that takes some guts. But
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (51:06)
Yeah, it's marketing.
It's definitely it's definitely a marketing term. And you mentioned greenwashing. that is across the board in terms of sustainability. And greenwashing and marketing means they're trying to sell you something that's not really what it appears to be. and since sustainability has become a thing and health conscious, eco friendly has become a thing, a lot of
companies they're using that term, and you can't trust that their product is actually what they claim it is. That's why it's so important, like I said earlier, you have to ask the right questions. And I think if we ask more of the right questions, things will continue to change because they are changing. one person, complaining about a product is one thing, but a thousand people complaining about that product
It's gonna move the needle. and so we just have to keep asking more informed questions.
Dee Davis (52:02)
Or not buying it. ⁓ a very a very good friend of mine has a children's store, and it is the best children's store on planet earth. I'm just gonna give her a plug here. It's Marley and Moose in Berthod, Colorado. Best kids' store ever. They have natural everything, natural crayons, natural finger paints for kids, wooden toys.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (52:03)
Or not? Yeah.
Dee Davis (52:27)
hundred percent cotton and bamboo clothing for kids. I mean, the stuff is so carefully curated. Every last piece of it, glass baby bottles, the the stuff to keep this stuff out of your kids' body and off of your kids' bodies and out of their environment so that they can grow up healthier and happier. And you can sleep at night as a parent.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (52:48)
Yes.
Dee Davis (52:50)
You know, hey, check out her website, Marley and Moose dot com. but it's that kind of stuff, that demand, people insisting, okay. if I buy something from her store, could I get something somewhere else cheaper? Okay, maybe. But I'm gonna go there and I'm gonna buy that because I don't have to do all the research because she's done it for me.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (53:07)
Right. She's she's she's
She's already vetted. And that goes to show you that it may take time and it should take time. You shouldn't try and change your whole life and throw everything out in your home overnight, but you can focus on one area or one room at a time and you get that to the point where it's actually safe. And when I say safe, I mean that you've reduced your toxic load.
And it takes time to do that. And sometimes, you're you're second guessing if you're not sure what to buy, where to buy it, or how to go about it, sometimes you just need a little help. And that resource that you just mentioned is a perfect resource. it starts a person thinking the right way.
Dee Davis (53:56)
And because I personally know the owner and I know what kind of person she is and what her standards and priorities are, I know that every single thing that I buy from that store is of the highest quality and is going to have the least amount of nonsense in it. I'm just lucky because I happen to know her and I can share her stuff with so many people, but those are the kinds of companies you want to find.
Those are the kinds of store owners you want to find. And then, it's not just that you have to do all this research. I'm not telling everybody to go do 40 minutes of research on a flashlight. Hopefully you don't have to do that. Talk to some people, ask some friends. There's actually some great Reddit groups for sustainability stuff, for being more eco friendly for reducing chemicals and things and plastics in your life.
There's lots of resources. And then of course we have people like Cynthia Harvey Brown who does the research for you, right? You can reach out, she can give you some help. So you don't have to do this by yourself. it doesn't have to be swimming upstream and so much work all the time. you got to find the right people and the right resources to help you help yourself through all of these things. So let's talk about some bigger levers.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (54:49)
Yes, yes.
Dee Davis (55:08)
Material choices and habits, those are personal things, but systems and policies shape the marketplace as you kind of intimated. we shape the marketplace with our individual demands as purchasers and parents and workers and all the different things that we are. industry standards and advocacy groups like EWG and Building Green.
They leverage change in product markets. So how can listeners to this cast influence brands and policy to accelerate safer materials?
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (55:45)
That's a very good question. And I think your listeners probably are gathering the information now that first of all, know that you have power to ask questions, read the labels, speak up for yourself regarding what is good for you. And I really do believe that even employers, they have to know by now that if their employees are happy, they'll be more productive.
if they make the environment, better for them, they're gonna get better work from their employees. And so it's really, a synergy of working with people and and trying to create environments that are actually healthier for all of us because then there's a benefit to all parties involved.
Dee Davis (56:33)
what role does certifications and retailer policies play? can things like boycotting or requesting PFAS free products really move supply chains?
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (56:45)
I think it does, and I can only speak from my experience working in the fashion industry and the textile industry, and I can tell you, that if enough people request something in particular and they are asking in my instance, they're asking for organic and natural materials, less synthetic materials,
And it takes time. It took years for things to come around, but it eventually will happen. And I think the power is in the hands of the consumer. They can control a lot of what the market supplies. But the supply chain, all along the way, they have to agree that okay, enough people are asking for this. There's a demand for this. So
I better do something about it if I want to stay in business. And to your point earlier, I think the smaller company owners, like the boutique owner that you mentioned, I think the smaller companies are sometimes the ones that you want to start with because they're starting with a concern for the people that they're creating and curating their products for. Whereas some of the larger, major
Corporations, they're looking at their bottom line first and foremost. And so for them, sometimes it's profit over people. So I think finding the smaller companies that you can trust are going to be a great place to start. And just swap out, the materials that are safer that you have researched or that you found to be safer for you. But availability is increasing. There are more.
companies that are actually providing what is being asked for. And professionals as well as moms create a demand by just asking for it over and over. And the more people that ask for it, you'll see a change.
Dee Davis (58:38)
Yeah, and if you happen to be lucky enough to find somebody local, that is either maybe a clothing designer or a furniture designer or some kind of a textile manufacturer or, on a small scale, shout from the rooftops, help them out. make sure that you're telling all your friends because those become the small to medium sized businesses that can be trusted to produce high quality local goods.
and not shipping things from overseas and trying to trying to do that very economically is also awesome. So where should listeners look for trustworthy research or product databases? Like if I was gonna start researching, for example, let's use the yoga pants, okay? I still need to need to find a reputable brand of yoga pants that isn't gonna be all this synthetic material.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (59:22)
Uh-huh. Okay. Mm-hmm.
Dee Davis (59:30)
Is there a database or like websites? Like where would I go to find that?
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (59:35)
Well, just know that progress starts by doing some search, asking better questions. And you mentioned earlier EWG, it's environmental working group, and that is definitely an organization that you can go to to get information about personal care products and other products that you use at home. and we also talked about OEKO-TEX We talked about Green Guard.
And Green Guard Goal, these are all organizations that certify companies and brands so that you know that they've been vetted and you can trust them. But it does take time to find companies and products that you like and that you will continue to support. And to your point earlier, it's really helpful to support these smaller companies. They need
To stay in business, they're up against competitors that are selling stuff for a lot less. But even when you go to Walmart, you can find 100% cotton sheets. You can find a lot of the products that are now stamped organic or stamped with the OEKO-TEX label. So it's not as hard to find what you want now. These organizations are available to everyone and they make it a possible for you to find the products that you want.
So for instance, if you're looking for if a new pair of pajamas or a pair of yoga pants made out of bamboo, you can certainly go even to Amazon, they're selling them now. Now, again, you're going to want to look for the information, look at the details and the specs, because you want to make sure that if they start off saying they're organic, that when you go down and look at the ingredient list.
it says a hundred percent cotton or it says bamboo and linen blend because I find that with Amazon they may say one thing but unless you dig a little deeper in their their specs you won't run into a problem and it's really important to know that it's what it says it is. So just ask better questions because that's one way to really find out
Whether a product is worth your money.
Dee Davis (1:01:48)
Yeah, I ran into that problem when I was on my 100% cotton shirt search. is that unfortunately Amazon is essentially a search engine at this point, right? So it's going to return all these things to you based on your query, and it'll say 100% cotton, but then you start digging down and you find out that no, it's not 100% cotton. point being, you may find that what you want isn't on Amazon.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (1:02:16)
This is true.
Dee Davis (1:02:17)
You may have to
order it directly from the manufacturer or you may have to go to a store. So if I go to say OEKO-TEX and I search their website, their website is going to help me locate a product brand that meets my standards and then will also tell me where I could buy it.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (1:02:24)
Uh-huh.
They will give you a brand name and then you can do the search to maybe they most companies have their website. So you would go to their website. So it's readily available. It just takes a little time.
And what I do is that I try when I get information from women that I talk to in the store, my doctor, and they've told me of a company like you just mentioned of a children's brand, I will put that on a list and that is an ongoing, it's a kind of a working list and so that I can vet the companies because sometimes I'm finding women
They don't want to do the research. They don't want to take the time to go through all of what's necessary in order to create a room or a home that is, non-toxic, that's reduces their toxic load. And so I want to be able to provide those resources. So I'm constantly researching. That's what I do. So that they don't have to, because we shouldn't have to do this alone. it's taken me years to get to a
point where I can kind of vet a product and know right away whether or not it's a trustworthy product. and, my heart is to help women, especially moms with children are women that are really in the process of starting a family to help them not second guess and not spend a lot of time. moms don't have a lot of time to to research
Dee Davis (1:04:02)
So to be very clear, what Cynthia Harvey Brown does part of as part of her coaching business is she coaches women to bring healthier homes, right? And to swap out products and make recommendations and stuff. So that's part of her coaching service. So if you're listening to the cast and you're thinking, wow, I really want to do this, but I really don't have time, call Cynthia and get some coaching from her. She can help you with that.
she can provide that for you because she spent the time. If you don't want to spend 40 minutes researching a maglight like I did, call Cynthia, okay?
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (1:04:39)
Ha ha ha.
Right. Well d well Dee,
the thing too is that, you spent some time searching one product, but there's so many things that are in our homes and even habits that we don't realize are interfering with our well being. And so that is that is what I do. And I just feel like if your listeners, if this conversation, lit any spark or it resonated with any of your listeners.
Even a little bit, the best place to start is to simply start looking at your home differently. and I definitely want your listeners to know that there's two ways they can reach out to me. The first one is they can if they have questions, reach out to me at my email address at support @ startliving sustainable . com. And the other way to connect with me
is through my personalized healthy home reset. And that's where I work with them one-on-one in session, where we go through one area in their home that they spend the most time in. That's generally the first place that I like to help them with. And we uncover what's worth paying attention to, what they can wait about. And we also talk about any of those small changes that will make the biggest impact in their homes and in their lives.
And so they can definitely go to my website for that and it's startliving sustainable . com.
Dee Davis (1:06:06)
Well, that's awesome. And we'll have all of that contact information. We'll have your website, your podcast, all of that in our show notes. So it'll be an easy click for our listeners to get to. what I want to hit on a few like key highlights before we wrap up. if I'm a young renter and listening to this podcast, and it's my first place or one of my first places, or maybe even a new homeowner.
What one immediate thing can I do to help reduce indoor air chemical exposure in my house?
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (1:06:35)
Choose wisely.
and take care of what you already own. and shop less.
Dee Davis (1:06:42)
Shopless. I think there is a huge movement in the younger generation. I lose track of what generations are which ones called what anymore, but the the younger folks are doing way more resale, type stores and reuse and buying used things. I overheard the these three younger people talking about how ridiculous it was to go buy brand new furniture when they could get something just as good for
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (1:06:49)
Ha ha
Dee Davis (1:07:07)
a fraction of the price off of Facebook marketplace today. And I think the younger generations do a better job of that than I think we did at that age. and that's great. I love it. So yes, like you said, that stuff has already done its off gassing. So maybe don't go out and buy a bunch of new stuff who can afford it anyway.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (1:07:22)
Yeah.
of it a lot of it is particle board The furniture nowadays is not made with the the same quality as furniture, you know, decades ago.
Dee Davis (1:07:33)
Yeah. Well and and guess what? Particle board is chipped up wood glued together. So there's where your offgassing's coming from. It's the chemicals that they use they mechanically press it together with glue, ⁓ or a glue-like adhesive. So not not good quality and really, really high VOCs in those things.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (1:07:40)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
yeah, absolutely.
Dee Davis (1:07:57)
If somebody's gonna go buy a new mattress or a couch, what is one question that they can ask the seller?
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (1:08:05)
What is inside of it? What is it made out of? What type of foam is it? Because you ideally you want bamboo.
Dee Davis (1:08:11)
Hey.
Okay, so that c that can actually be the filler for like a couch or a mattress?
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (1:08:18)
yeah, I bought a mattress about five years ago and it's you can buy them now.
Dee Davis (1:08:22)
I did not know that. I've seen bamboo I've seen mattresses with like bamboo, like the part you lay on is bamboo, but I didn't realize the filler was.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (1:08:24)
Yeah, yeah. And they're so
Well, it's mostly bamboo. They they may have other things inside, other foams, but generally if a mattress company is selling a mattress that is primarily bamboo, they're gonna use a foam. There's so many different kinds of foams that are being used in in products today. And so you just wanna find out what kind it is so that you can maybe look up or research it for yourself.
to see which one may be safer for you.
Dee Davis (1:09:01)
I'm gonna give the listeners one of my takeaways is if you're a builder, a building owner, a designer, a contractor, building air flushing needs to be taken seriously, especially if you're doing a new build, you're doing a remodel.
If you have a LEED building, this might happen, but even when you are building a LEED building, I see this passed over for air sampling more often than not because nobody wants to schedule in the time at the end of the project to do a real building flush. In addition to all the textiles that we've talked about, there's lots of off gassing, as we've discussed, from adhesives and sealants and tons of other stuff that any new building
or new installation is going to have. Open up all your windows if it's possible, doors, whatever you've got. Turn on that HVAC system fan. You don't have to run the AC, you don't have to condition the air, just turn the fans on full blast, let it run for several days. As long as you can manage it, a building air flush is usually scheduled for three to seven days. I recommend at least getting that three day.
air flush in it makes a world of difference. It made a world of difference to me in my new apartment here. Just that paint smell was just over the top. So we've already talked about how to reach out to you. Did you have any final closing messages for the listeners?
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (1:10:31)
if it's okay with you Dee, I'd like to leave some links for some additional resources and my free guide as well. and these are all useful and these are tools that I use as well. So I'd love to send you that so you can share that link with your listeners. And I just want them to know that even small changes will make a big difference over time.
Dee Davis (1:10:55)
Absolutely. We'd be happy to include all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much for joining us today here, Cynthia. It has been an honor and a privilege to have you here. I am so excited about looking at those resources for myself and making some additional changes. Thanks a lot for joining us and we'll see you all next time.
Cynthia Harvey-Brown (1:11:14)
All right. You're welcome. Glad I was here.
